Looking for God in All the Wrong Places . . . Like Kolob

PatrickMadrid ^ | July 4, 2009

[NYer]

Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Mormon Church, taught that not only is God our Heavenly Father an "exalted" man who evolved into godhood, but he lives with his wives on a planet near the star Kolob (Abraham 3:2-3, 16). There, from a distance, he reigns over the earth. Seriously.

— By Brian Saint-Paul, Envoy Magazine, www.envoymagazine.com —

In three short months, Joseph Smith would be dead — murdered at the hands of an angry mob. But on this day in April of 1844, his followers were assembled in a lush grove to pay homage to one who had already passed beyond the veil. The crowds settled into the wooden benches surrounded by a line of trees, and fell silent. All eyes followed the Prophet as he stood up, walked to the fore, and began to deliver a sermon that would be etched deeply into the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS).

Smith proclaimed: "That he [God] was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. . . . Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Press, 1938], 343, 345-346).

And so went the King Follett Discourse, named after the Latter-Day Saint whose death they were gathered to remember. It’s unknown how the crowd reacted to the Prophet’s words. There seems to have been no great disturbance - not surprising, since the teachings were, for Mormons, nothing new. For Catholics, though, these claims are shocking if not offensive. This raises an important question: What is the Mormon view of God and how does it compare with that of classical Christianity? The answer may surprise you.

The late B.H. Roberts, the most influential scholar in the history of the LDS church, boiled the main differences down to three:

“First, we believe that God is a being with a body in form like man’s; that he possesses body, parts and passions; that in a word, God is an exalted, perfected man. Second, we believe in a plurality of Gods. Third, we believe that somewhere and some time in the ages to come, through development, through enlargement, through purification until perfection is attained, man at last, may become like God - a God” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity [Infobase Collector’s Library, Infobases, Inc.], chapter 1). Let’s examine the three points.

One god, two god, three god, four. . .

It’s a big universe out there - plenty of room for a plurality of gods. Well, at least that’s what LDS would have us believe. One of the central tenets of Mormonism is that while this world has but one God (Heavenly Father), there are countless other gods out there, each governing his own world or system of worlds. This position can be best labeled “henotheism,” that is, the belief in many gods, coupled with the worship of only one. The idea of a plurality of gods is found clearly in the Book of Abraham, one of Mormonism’s inspired writings. In it, the Genesis creation story is restated, with a significant modification:

“And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light; And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright. . . . And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night” (Abraham 4:3-5). It goes on from there, adding “Gods” to every action in the original Genesis account. . . . (continue reading)

[NYer]

Ping!

[colorcountry]

at he [God] was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. . . . Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you”

If God was once a man like us who progressed into becoming God, does that mean he sinned like us do you suppose?

[FastCoyote]

And this all goes back to an important political question, does Mitt Romney believe he is on a path to becoming God? (with a layover as US President). Would you vote for a man who viewed his acts as a stepping stone to Godhood?

[SkyDancer]

>ping<

[NYer]

If God was once a man like us ..

God is eternal and without sin. He has no wives.

[Star Traveler]

You asked — Would you vote for a man who viewed his acts as a stepping stone to Godhood?

—

Well, basically I wouldn’t vote for a candidate who is a member of a non-Christian cult group, like the Mormons are.

For a standard and well-accepted definition of cult groups, look at this reference book that is used by all seminary libraries (and if one doesn’t have this reference material in it, then it’s not worthy of being a seminary library... LOL...).

Kingdom of the Cults
by Walter Martin and Ravi Zacharias
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0764228218/

—

HOWEVER, from the “political side” of things, one might want to listen to Jim Robinson.

I like to post this as much as possible for any Romney-bots who happen to be reading... LOL...

---

Unlike Romney’s “National Council for a New America,” Free Republic is a conservative site!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2243314/posts
by Jim Robinson

If there is anyone here who doesn’t understand why we cannot support a slick socialist politician like Mitt Romney, God help you, but you’re on the wrong website. We went through this with the abortionist, gay rights activist, illegal alien supporting, gun grabbing Rudy Giuliani until someone created another website call WAnkers for Rudy and they all flew the coop. Hopefully, before too much FReeper blood is shed, someone will create a WAnkers for Romney site and we can be left to fight the good fight as we see fit!

FR is not for everyone!

---

Any other questions, Romney-bots?... :-)

[Poe White Trash]

Let me guess — according to Mormon theology, Satan and Christ are brothers?

[colorcountry]

The reason I dislike Mormonism so much it the simple degradation of God. Can you imagine anything more abhorrent than making God into the image of Man?

I don't want to lose site of that issue on this thread and I will respect the OP and silently slink away, leaving the taint of the Mormon god here for all to see.

Almighty, true and incomparable God,
You are present in all things,
yet in no way limited by them.
You remain unaffected by place,
untouched by time,
unperturbed by years,
and undeceived by words.
You are not subject to birth
and in no need of protection.
You are beyond all corruption,
above all change,
immutable by nature.
You live in unapproachable light
and are invisible,
yet You are known to all those
who seek You with hope and love.
You are the God of Israel,
and of all who hope in Christ.

Amen.

[Star Traveler]

You said — The reason I dislike Mormonism so much it the simple degradation of God. Can you imagine anything more abhorrent than making God into the image of Man?

—

And yes, I do agree with you.

The reason why I do, is because I do have the Revelation from God, Himself, affirmed as the Word of God, too, by Jesus Christ, Himself. Without God choosing to have revealed Himself in His Word and through His Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel — I would have never been able to really know this.

Now, Mormonism is a direct attack upon the Word of God, as revealed in His Word and through His Son, in such a way that it distorts every last single essential Christian doctrine that exists — so that they can *deceive* people into believing their *lie* — that you point out up above.

But, once again, without the Word of God and His Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, how would I know that this is a lie?

— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —

And then you said — I don’t want to lose site of that issue on this thread and I will respect the OP and silently slink away, leaving the taint of the Mormon god here for all to see.

—

And I would agree that most people would be absolutely appalled at what the Mormon teachings try to “pass off” as Christian. That’s why they tend to hide a lot of this stuff at first, until they trap people into the woven set of lies in their own books, designed to replace and supplant the true Word of God, as He has revealed it to us.

[Who is John Galt?]

In the end, the God of the LDS church is incompatible with that of traditional, orthodox Christianity. An exalted man who lives on a planet near the star Kolob is a world away from the omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal and unchanging God of Catholicism.

Even if it's true, and no offense, but couldn't you find something else to post? You would think from the frequency of these 'God hates Mormons' threads, that the self-described LDS had orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, and was planning to nuke Disneyland.

I once served six and a half weeks on a jury in a civil suit, between two neighbors. The contending parties had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, each, on legal counsel and expert witnesses. And it was all for nothing (we didn't award a single penny on the eight counts we decided, and I would guess any counter suits went the same way). The one thing I took out of that case (besides the sorry fact that most Americans will lie through their teeth to 'get out of' jury duty)? Get along with your freaking neighbors - you're a freaking adult.

You want to make a difference? Talk to your freaking neighbors. One of them might be a Mormon. If you can actually respect them as freedom-loving Americans, and refrain from treating them like crap, maybe you will have some influence in their lives.

In other words (and just MHO), when you get a lot of rain, and their 'Mormon' drains flood their basements with 'non-denominational' sewage (including yours), offer to help out, and maybe you'll make a freaking difference...

[rickomatic]

You want to make a difference? Talk to your freaking neighbors. One of them might be a Mormon. If you can actually respect them as freedom-loving Americans, and refrain from treating them like crap, maybe you will have some influence in their lives.

If you call letting your Mormon neighbors know the differences in LDS "theology" as contrasted against the true Gospel of Jesus Christ as "treating them like crap" then I guess you'd call someone throwing a life ring to a drowning person as "treating them like crap" too.
LDS theology is a twisting of the Gospel into a lie from the pit of hell that serves only to take it's adherents there. To not point out the differences would, in fact, be treating them like crap.

[Who is John Galt?]

LDS theology is a twisting of the Gospel into a lie from the pit of hell that serves only to take it's adherents there. To not point out the differences would, in fact, be treating them like crap.

If you can present your view in God's Spirit of grace, truth, and love, which He Himself offers to Mormons (and everyone else), have at it.

In reality, you sound more like me, than the living God...

[rom]

Well, this is a factual article. It also might help expose to Non-Mormons the facts behind the LDS before they get suckered in.

An ounce of prevention...

But I agree with speaking the Gospel to practicing Mormons, I haven’t run into any Mormons since becoming a Christian (former agnostic) — but I’d like to talk to them about how secure they are in the surety of their salvation, rather than bring up Kolob.

[Who is John Galt?]

99.9% ditto...

;>)

[Elsie]

 

Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Mormon Church, taught that not only is God our Heavenly Father an "exalted" man who evolved into godhood, but he lives with his wives on a planet near the star Kolob (Abraham 3:2-3, 16).

 

 There, from a distance, he reigns over the earth.

 

---

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/3

---

 

 

 

 

THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH

CHAPTER 3

 

Abraham learns about the sun, moon, and stars by means of the Urim and Thummim—The Lord reveals to him the eternal nature of spirits—He learns of pre-earth life, foreordination, the creation, the choosing of a Redeemer, and the second estate of man.

 

  1 And I, Abraham, had the ^aUrim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

  2 And I saw the ^astars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

  3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is ^aKolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

  4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its ^atimes and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a ^bday unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand ^cyears according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s ^dtime, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

  5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or ^agreater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

  6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these ^atwo facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

  7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

  8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

  9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one ^aplanet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same ^border as that upon which thou standest.

  10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

  11 Thus I, Abraham, ^atalked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made;

  12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.

  13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.

  14 And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will ^amultiply thee, and thy ^bseed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the ^cnumber of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.

  15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I ^ashow these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.

  16 If ^atwo things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore ^bKolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

  17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will ^ado it.

  18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two ^aspirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are ^bgnolaum, or eternal.

  19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am ^amore intelligent than they all.

  20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to ^adeliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.

  21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the ^aworks which my hands have made, wherein my ^bwisdom excelleth them all, for I ^crule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

  22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the ^aintelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the ^bnoble and great ones;

  23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast ^achosen before thou wast born.

  24 And there stood ^aone among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and ^bwe will make an earth whereon these may ^cdwell;

  25 And we will ^aprove them herewith, to see if they will ^bdo all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

  26 And they who ^akeep their first ^bestate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second ^cestate shall have ^dglory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

  27 And the ^aLord said: Whom shall I ^bsend? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And ^canother answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will ^dsend the first.

  28 And the ^asecond was angry, and kept not his first ^bestate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

 

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Let me guess — according to Mormon theology, Satan and Christ are brothers?

Or SOMETHING like that.

What does that last verse of Abraham 3 tell you?

[Elsie]

 

In other words (and just MHO), when you get a lot of rain, and their 'Mormon' drains flood their basements with 'non-denominational' sewage (including yours), offer to help out, and maybe you'll make a freaking difference...

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,

“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

[Elsie]

 

In reality, you sound more like me, than the living God...

 

 

 

 

Paul wrote...

 

Galatians 5:12
  As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Poe White Trash]

Interesting!

I don’t know much about Mormonism, but am somewhat familiar with medieval heresies like Bogomilism and Catharism.

From what I’ve read of Mormon theology, it seems like a grab-bag of old heresies and 19th century “fringe” ideas (lost tribes, the then-current “plurality of worlds” debate, etc.).