What Mormons Think of the Bible

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[delacoert]

Official Mormon Statements about the Bible:

The Mormon church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted and does not contain the fullness of the gospel. This is reflected in one of their Articles of Faith which states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" (Pearl of Great Price).

• Joseph Smith stated: "it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.10); "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 327).
• When: "the book [Bible] proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew...it contained the fullness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record" (1 Nephi 13:24), but afterwards "thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church...after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles" (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:26,28). See also Doctrines of Salvation, vol.3, p.190-191.
• "many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible...Wherefore because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written" (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 29:3,10).
• When his "revelation" about Adam being God was disputed, Brigham Young stated: "You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe...I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child" (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.6).
• Orson Pratt's lack of confidence in the Bible is obvious: "...and who, in his right mind, could for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? No one can tell whether even one verse of either the Old or New Testament conveys the ideas of the original author" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 28).
• Apostle Bruce McConkie: "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors, many plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men" (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 82,83).
• McConkie continues: The Bible of the Old World has come to us from the manuscripts of antiquity - manuscripts which passed through the hands of uninspired men who changed many parts to suit their own doctrinal ideas. Deletions were common, and, as it now stands, many plain and precious portions and many covenants of the Lord have been lost. As a consequence, those who rely upon it [the Bible] alone stumble and are confused... (The Ensign, December 1985, p 55).
• Mormon Apostle Mark E. Petersen accused manuscript copyists of deliberately tampering with the Bible: "Many insertions were made, some of them slanted for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated" (As Translated Correctly, p.4).

Comparisons made by Mormon Leaders between the Bible and Book of Mormon. In contrast to the Bible, Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is perfect because it was translated perfectly (miraculously) as reflected in the second half of the same Article of Faith: "...we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God [but without any qualifications as to translation accuracy]" (Pearl of Great Price).

• President Ezra Taft Benson stated: "Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the Book of Mormon came from writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation" ("The Keystone of Our Religion", The Ensign, January 1992, page 5).
• Joseph Smith claimed: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was more correct than any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.194).
• An official and widely read LDS publication reads: "Men can get nearer to the Lord, can have more of the spirit of conversion and conformity in their hearts...can gain a better understanding of the doctrines of salvation through the Book of Mormon than they can through the Bible...there will be more people saved in the kingdom of God - ten thousand times over - because of the Book of Mormon than there will be because of the Bible" (The Ensign, November 1984, p. 7).
• A letter from the First Presidency (Presidents Benson, Hinckley, and Monson) to all members of the Church states: "The most reliable way to measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts, but by comparison with the Book of Mormon and modern-day revelations". (Church News, June 20, 1992, page 3, letter dated May 22, 1992).

[ejonesie22]

Well they have not been able to do it by archaeological study...

[kingpins10]

Joseph Smith was a charlatan. You gotta wonder about people that think they need to have a lot of offspring to release ‘spirit babies.’

[elcid1970]

Well, as a drinking WOW violating member of TGAAC, I feel both left out and offended.

If there’s one thing that Joseph Merry Smithmas resented about the Vatican in Rome, it was its sheer size, temporal authority, and wealth.

Look, I’m just one ordinary Catholic mackerel-snapper who is grateful for my weekly opportunity to worship my Savior. Why does JS and the TOJCOLDS regard me as a target (the mishies have targeted me before)?

[count-your-change]

Or who produce such an obvious fraud as The Book of Abraham, an Egyptian funeral text smith spun into a yarn about Abraham.

The fruit of a rotten tree rule applies here.

[wendy1946]

Joseph Smith claimed to have used "prophecy stones" to translate hieroglyphic writings into two or three of the holy books of the LDS church, clearly figuring that hieroglyphs were something nobody could ever call him on since the best scholars had been beating their heads against a stone wall on hieroglyphs for the previous 2000 years.

And then Napoleon Bonaparte's troops found the Rosetta stone and a decade or two later European scholars were able to translate hieroglyphs without difficulty. At some point in the second half of the 1800s, real scholars actually translated those two or three "holy books" and they noted that Smith hadn't gotten a single word of any of it right, one of the items being a formula for brewing beer.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Are you saying the Book of Abraham is wrong? How dare you question Joseph Smith, “the man who could not lie”!

http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html

[Elsie]

Why don’t you send flowers?

[Elsie]

I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

And the SECRET of the UNTRUTH went to the grave with Joseph; for NO MORMON can explain just what that UNTRUTH was!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[delacoert]

You’re welcome AG.

[Godzilla]

Metzger

Remarkable, just as the title of the thread indicates, mormons will quick attempt to denegrate the bible in order to protect its prophet and the bom. Do you even have a clue to what Metzger is talking about, or are you parroting the talking points put out by FAIR, et al without studying the transmission of the bible?

Here is how mormon history documents the way Smith translated the bom

We have what Smith claimed was the handwritten document from Abraham - how well was his translation of Egyptian? Take Smith's translation of Facimile 3 for example

Joseph's Interpretation of Facsimile 3
Fig. 1. Abraham sitting upon Pharaoh's throne, by the politeness of the king, with a crown upon his head, representing the Priesthood, as emblematical of the grand Presidency in Heaven; with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.
Fig. 2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.
Fig. 3. Signifies Abraham in Egypt as given also in Figure 10 of Facsimile No. 1.
Fig. 4. Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand.
Fig. 5. Shulem, one of the king's principal waiters, as represented by the characters above his hand.
Fig. 6. Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.
Abraham is reasoning upon the principles of Astronomy, in the king's court.

Egyptologist's Interpretation of Facsimile 3
Facsimile No. 3 is a depiction of a common funerary scene.
Egyptologist Klaus Baer provides this information about facsimile No. 3 in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1968, pp. 126-127:
Facsimile No. 3 shows a man (5) his hand raised in adoration and a cone of perfumed grease and a lotus flower on his head (ancient Egyptian festival attire), being introduced by Maat (4), the goddess of justice, and Anubis (6), the guide of the dead, into the presence of Osiris (1), enthroned as king of the Netherworld. Behind Osiris stands Isis (2), and in front of him is an offering-stand (3) with a jug and some flowers on it. Over the whole scene is a canopy with stars painted on it to represent the sky.

The scene comes from a mortuary papyrus and is similar to, but not identical with the scenes showing judgement of the deceased before Osiris such as P. JS III. It is a summary in one illustration of what the Breathing Permit promised: The deceased, after successfully undergoing judgement is welcomed into the presence of Osiris.

The texts, poorly copied as they are, carry us one step further. As far as it can be made out, the line of hieroglyphics below the scene reads.

'O Gods of ..., gods of Caverns, gods of the south, north, west, and east, grant well-being to Osiris Hor, justified, ...'

The characters above and to the left of the man are probably to be read: 'Osiris Hor, justified forever.' Even though Hor is a relatively common name in Greco-Roman Egypt, this does suggest 'Facsimile No. 3' reproduces part of the same manuscript that 'Facsimile No. 2' does. Hor's copy of the Breathing Permit would then have had two vignettes, one at the beginning and another ('Facsimile No. 3) at the end, an arrangement that is found in other copies of the same text."

Shall we also consider the Kinderhook plates translation or the Greek Psalter? No, you post shows that when the backs go against the wall, the mormons will attack the bible.

[LiteKeeper]

To determine something has been corrupted, you need to have the original to compare it with. How do the Mormons come to the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted?

[TheDon]

Hmmmmm.... one of us is on the wrong thread! This is the “What Mormons Think of the Bible” thread. :-)

[wendy1946]

Thanks! I had the impression that the papyri in question had been lost at some point after scholars first examined them but apparently not.

[Colofornian]

From the article: A letter from the First Presidency (Presidents Benson, Hinckley, and Monson) to all members of the Church states: "The most reliable way to measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts, but by comparison with the Book of Mormon and modern-day revelations."

They flunked the New Testament.

Q Who does the Bible describe as "noble?"
A The Bereans (Acts 17:11)

Q How did the Bereans "measure the accuracy" of statements that would later come to be part of the NT (in the book of Acts)?
A According to Acts 17:11, they searched the Scriptures (the existing OT), to see if what the apostle Paul said was so.

Q How did Benson, Hinckley and Monson get it wrong in 1992?
A They turned the process of "measuring the accuracy" of a supposed revelation entirely on its head: They said to compare the old revelation against the new supposed "revelation."

Q What's problematic with that?
A
(1) There's no baseline standard.
(2) Jesus said many rogue messiahs would pop up in the end times. Just think of trying to "measure the accuracy" of the New Testament based upon something one or more of these rogue messiahs might claim as "revelational."

[Godzilla]

Hmmmmm.... one of us is on the wrong thread! This is the “What Mormons Think of the Bible” thread. :-)

Noted: refusal to address the issue presented.

[TheDon]

Start a thread on the topic, and I’d be happy to address your issue.

[Elsie]

...when the backs go against the wall, the mormons will attack the bible.

Hey!!

Look!!

Over THERE!!!

[Elsie]

This is the “What Mormons Think of the Bible” thread. :-)

Indeed!

And we are supplying the WHY they think that way!

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Speaking of the BIBLE; just WHAT did the PRESBYTERIANS of Jospeph day teach that was UNTRUE to what was in the BIBLE?

[Elsie]

How do the Mormons come to the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted?

Certain men TOLD them so.

The SAME men that told them they would NEVER lead them astray.

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"Trust me; I'm a doctor Living Prophet®."