What Mormons Think of the Bible

Michael Davis' Virtual Desk ^ | Michael Davis

[ejonesie22]

Well they have not been able to do it by archaeological study...

[kingpins10]

Joseph Smith was a charlatan. You gotta wonder about people that think they need to have a lot of offspring to release ‘spirit babies.’

[elcid1970]

Well, as a drinking WOW violating member of TGAAC, I feel both left out and offended.

If there’s one thing that Joseph Merry Smithmas resented about the Vatican in Rome, it was its sheer size, temporal authority, and wealth.

Look, I’m just one ordinary Catholic mackerel-snapper who is grateful for my weekly opportunity to worship my Savior. Why does JS and the TOJCOLDS regard me as a target (the mishies have targeted me before)?

[count-your-change]

Or who produce such an obvious fraud as The Book of Abraham, an Egyptian funeral text smith spun into a yarn about Abraham.

The fruit of a rotten tree rule applies here.

[wendy1946]

Joseph Smith claimed to have used "prophecy stones" to translate hieroglyphic writings into two or three of the holy books of the LDS church, clearly figuring that hieroglyphs were something nobody could ever call him on since the best scholars had been beating their heads against a stone wall on hieroglyphs for the previous 2000 years.

And then Napoleon Bonaparte's troops found the Rosetta stone and a decade or two later European scholars were able to translate hieroglyphs without difficulty. At some point in the second half of the 1800s, real scholars actually translated those two or three "holy books" and they noted that Smith hadn't gotten a single word of any of it right, one of the items being a formula for brewing beer.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Are you saying the Book of Abraham is wrong? How dare you question Joseph Smith, “the man who could not lie”!

http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html

[Elsie]

Why don’t you send flowers?

[Elsie]

I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

And the SECRET of the UNTRUTH went to the grave with Joseph; for NO MORMON can explain just what that UNTRUTH was!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[delacoert]

You’re welcome AG.

[Godzilla]

Metzger

Remarkable, just as the title of the thread indicates, mormons will quick attempt to denegrate the bible in order to protect its prophet and the bom. Do you even have a clue to what Metzger is talking about, or are you parroting the talking points put out by FAIR, et al without studying the transmission of the bible?

Here is how mormon history documents the way Smith translated the bom

We have what Smith claimed was the handwritten document from Abraham - how well was his translation of Egyptian? Take Smith's translation of Facimile 3 for example

Joseph's Interpretation of Facsimile 3
Fig. 1. Abraham sitting upon Pharaoh's throne, by the politeness of the king, with a crown upon his head, representing the Priesthood, as emblematical of the grand Presidency in Heaven; with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.
Fig. 2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.
Fig. 3. Signifies Abraham in Egypt as given also in Figure 10 of Facsimile No. 1.
Fig. 4. Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand.
Fig. 5. Shulem, one of the king's principal waiters, as represented by the characters above his hand.
Fig. 6. Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.
Abraham is reasoning upon the principles of Astronomy, in the king's court.

Egyptologist's Interpretation of Facsimile 3
Facsimile No. 3 is a depiction of a common funerary scene.
Egyptologist Klaus Baer provides this information about facsimile No. 3 in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1968, pp. 126-127:
Facsimile No. 3 shows a man (5) his hand raised in adoration and a cone of perfumed grease and a lotus flower on his head (ancient Egyptian festival attire), being introduced by Maat (4), the goddess of justice, and Anubis (6), the guide of the dead, into the presence of Osiris (1), enthroned as king of the Netherworld. Behind Osiris stands Isis (2), and in front of him is an offering-stand (3) with a jug and some flowers on it. Over the whole scene is a canopy with stars painted on it to represent the sky.

The scene comes from a mortuary papyrus and is similar to, but not identical with the scenes showing judgement of the deceased before Osiris such as P. JS III. It is a summary in one illustration of what the Breathing Permit promised: The deceased, after successfully undergoing judgement is welcomed into the presence of Osiris.

The texts, poorly copied as they are, carry us one step further. As far as it can be made out, the line of hieroglyphics below the scene reads.

'O Gods of ..., gods of Caverns, gods of the south, north, west, and east, grant well-being to Osiris Hor, justified, ...'

The characters above and to the left of the man are probably to be read: 'Osiris Hor, justified forever.' Even though Hor is a relatively common name in Greco-Roman Egypt, this does suggest 'Facsimile No. 3' reproduces part of the same manuscript that 'Facsimile No. 2' does. Hor's copy of the Breathing Permit would then have had two vignettes, one at the beginning and another ('Facsimile No. 3) at the end, an arrangement that is found in other copies of the same text."

Shall we also consider the Kinderhook plates translation or the Greek Psalter? No, you post shows that when the backs go against the wall, the mormons will attack the bible.

[LiteKeeper]

To determine something has been corrupted, you need to have the original to compare it with. How do the Mormons come to the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted?

[TheDon]

Hmmmmm.... one of us is on the wrong thread! This is the “What Mormons Think of the Bible” thread. :-)

[wendy1946]

Thanks! I had the impression that the papyri in question had been lost at some point after scholars first examined them but apparently not.

[Colofornian]

From the article: A letter from the First Presidency (Presidents Benson, Hinckley, and Monson) to all members of the Church states: "The most reliable way to measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts, but by comparison with the Book of Mormon and modern-day revelations."

They flunked the New Testament.

Q Who does the Bible describe as "noble?"
A The Bereans (Acts 17:11)

Q How did the Bereans "measure the accuracy" of statements that would later come to be part of the NT (in the book of Acts)?
A According to Acts 17:11, they searched the Scriptures (the existing OT), to see if what the apostle Paul said was so.

Q How did Benson, Hinckley and Monson get it wrong in 1992?
A They turned the process of "measuring the accuracy" of a supposed revelation entirely on its head: They said to compare the old revelation against the new supposed "revelation."

Q What's problematic with that?
A
(1) There's no baseline standard.
(2) Jesus said many rogue messiahs would pop up in the end times. Just think of trying to "measure the accuracy" of the New Testament based upon something one or more of these rogue messiahs might claim as "revelational."

[Godzilla]

Hmmmmm.... one of us is on the wrong thread! This is the “What Mormons Think of the Bible” thread. :-)

Noted: refusal to address the issue presented.

[TheDon]

Start a thread on the topic, and I’d be happy to address your issue.

[Elsie]

...when the backs go against the wall, the mormons will attack the bible.

Hey!!

Look!!

Over THERE!!!

[Elsie]

This is the “What Mormons Think of the Bible” thread. :-)

Indeed!

And we are supplying the WHY they think that way!

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Speaking of the BIBLE; just WHAT did the PRESBYTERIANS of Jospeph day teach that was UNTRUE to what was in the BIBLE?

[Elsie]

How do the Mormons come to the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted?

Certain men TOLD them so.

The SAME men that told them they would NEVER lead them astray.

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"Trust me; I'm a doctor Living Prophet®."