What Mormons Think of the Bible

Michael Davis' Virtual Desk ^ | Michael Davis

[delacoert]

Official Mormon Statements about the Bible:

The Mormon church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted and does not contain the fullness of the gospel. This is reflected in one of their Articles of Faith which states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" (Pearl of Great Price).

• Joseph Smith stated: "it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.10); "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 327).
• When: "the book [Bible] proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew...it contained the fullness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record" (1 Nephi 13:24), but afterwards "thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church...after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles" (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:26,28). See also Doctrines of Salvation, vol.3, p.190-191.
• "many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible...Wherefore because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written" (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 29:3,10).
• When his "revelation" about Adam being God was disputed, Brigham Young stated: "You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe...I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child" (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.6).
• Orson Pratt's lack of confidence in the Bible is obvious: "...and who, in his right mind, could for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? No one can tell whether even one verse of either the Old or New Testament conveys the ideas of the original author" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 28).
• Apostle Bruce McConkie: "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors, many plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men" (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 82,83).
• McConkie continues: The Bible of the Old World has come to us from the manuscripts of antiquity - manuscripts which passed through the hands of uninspired men who changed many parts to suit their own doctrinal ideas. Deletions were common, and, as it now stands, many plain and precious portions and many covenants of the Lord have been lost. As a consequence, those who rely upon it [the Bible] alone stumble and are confused... (The Ensign, December 1985, p 55).
• Mormon Apostle Mark E. Petersen accused manuscript copyists of deliberately tampering with the Bible: "Many insertions were made, some of them slanted for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated" (As Translated Correctly, p.4).

Comparisons made by Mormon Leaders between the Bible and Book of Mormon. In contrast to the Bible, Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is perfect because it was translated perfectly (miraculously) as reflected in the second half of the same Article of Faith: "...we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God [but without any qualifications as to translation accuracy]" (Pearl of Great Price).

• President Ezra Taft Benson stated: "Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the Book of Mormon came from writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation" ("The Keystone of Our Religion", The Ensign, January 1992, page 5).
• Joseph Smith claimed: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was more correct than any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.194).
• An official and widely read LDS publication reads: "Men can get nearer to the Lord, can have more of the spirit of conversion and conformity in their hearts...can gain a better understanding of the doctrines of salvation through the Book of Mormon than they can through the Bible...there will be more people saved in the kingdom of God - ten thousand times over - because of the Book of Mormon than there will be because of the Bible" (The Ensign, November 1984, p. 7).
• A letter from the First Presidency (Presidents Benson, Hinckley, and Monson) to all members of the Church states: "The most reliable way to measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts, but by comparison with the Book of Mormon and modern-day revelations". (Church News, June 20, 1992, page 3, letter dated May 22, 1992).

[varmintman]

The Rosetta stone I believe had the same text body in hieroglyphs, hieratic writing, and Greek and that indicates that hieroglyphs were still either in use or at least understood at an age closer to our own than one might think if he assumes that the pyramids are 4000 - 5500 years old. Heinsohn and Sweeney of course are claiming an age more like 3000 for them.

[restornu]

The Book of Abraham for dummies
Says it all!

***

yes it does critics are dummies!

[Elsie]

Abraham Referenced in Egyptian Papyrus w/ties 2 facsimilie 1

The Book of Abraham for dummies 6

These are supposed to PROVE something?

Hey!

Look over THERE!!

---

the fact that the papyrus recovered from the collection that Joseph Smith and the Saints obtained doesn’t have the text of the Book of Abraham on it.

[Godzilla]

It is certainly much closer to the original author's version than the Bible. Of course, we don't have the original copies of the Bible manuscripts, not even copies of the original copies, nor the even copies of those copies.

this is laughable at face value. 4000 changes to a document written in 1830's. Since there are no gold plates to examine, and according to mormon history, the hand written extant first edition 'translations' should be the most perfect. You admit they are not. Isn't the mormon god significant enought to get it right the first time?

No can do. Again your point falls short. What you are providing is the recollection of the scribes on how the text was transmitted to them. I submit this is only speculation on their part on how the translation, as opposed to the transmission, took place.

Ah, good 'ol mormon cognative dissonance. The testimony of the scribes (particularly those who are also the 'witnessess') is only speculation. LOL, how can they speculate on what they 'participated' in, relating their first hand interaction with smith.

You did not provide an account by Joseph Smith on how the translation was accomplished, because there is none available.

I'll let LDS apologist Stephen Ricks answer:
"His reticence was probably well justified and may have been due to the inordinate interest which some of the early Saints had shown in the seer stone or to the negative and sometimes bitter reactions he encountered when he had reported some of his sacred experiences to others."

Again, divination used - NOT translation.

Also, not every word was spelled out, just names the first time they were transmitted to the scribe.

Again, I would refer you to the first hand account by mormon witness Whitmer, endorsed by Elder Nelson previous post.

As a prophet, Joseph certainly had the inspiration to make any corrections to the BofM, and he did.

Then he failed BY THE POWER OF GOD to 'translate it correctly the first time. That does not lend credability to his credentials as a real prophet.

[Elsie]

yes it does critics are dummies!

Your most trusted man CRITICIZED all of Christianity!

[Godzilla]

Now, however there’s a funerary text with both elements of the snsn papyrus AND a clear reference to Abraham.__

Resty, please read my post more carefully. It is smith's 'translation' mentions Abraham, not the translation by the egyptologist. It sound like you are citing a work by Gee where the word 'Abraham' was found in a papyrus NOT owned by Smith or used for the boa. However another mormon egyptologist Edward H. Ashment refutes Gee in "The Use of Egyptian Magical Papyri to Authenticate the Book of Abraham"

Was Joseph just a good guesser? Is this just a grand coincidence?

Since Abraham is not mentioned, smith is a grand liar

I’m not here to try and prove the Book of Abraham. But this is evidence that the case isn’t as much an ‘open and shut’ instance as the LDS critics would feign it to be

For lurkers, an excellent reference on the boa can be found here:

http://www.bookofabraham.com/

[Godzilla]

A prophet by definition was getting information directly from God and the idea of having to revise info direct from God involves some kind of a breakdown in logic.

Precisely!

[restornu]

yes it does critics are dummies!

Your most trusted man CRITICIZED all of Christianity!

****

The Traditions of men did that...

Just like Obama is obamazing the Contitution!

Joseph Smith was choosen by the Lord Jesus Christ to be his servant not the world Tradition of Men!

[TheDon]

A prophet by definition was getting information directly from God and the idea of having to revise info direct from God involves some kind of a breakdown in logic.

Joseph was given the ability to translate the BofM. You are ignoring the transmission errors from Joseph to his scribes and from the scribe's copy to the printer's copy and what actually got typeset. No doubt traditional christianity has different notions about prophets and scripture than Mormons. We have first hand experience with prophets and scriptures that you don't. :-)

[restornu]

Believe what you want I don’t care for me I am a seeker of the Lord’s TRUTH not traditiion of men!

[TheDon]

this is laughable at face value. 4000 changes to a document written in 1830's

Don't worry, give us another 1000 years or so and perhaps we will catch up with the 400,000 variants in the Greek NT!

Then he failed BY THE POWER OF GOD to 'translate it correctly the first time. That does not lend credability to his credentials as a real prophet.

Now who is confusing translation and transmission errors? :-)

[varmintman]

There’s one tiny bit of consolation I could offer you, i.e. the fact that the people described in the bom are in good company; it’s becoming increasingly apparent that Charlemagne never existed either. Try doing google searches on ‘charlemagne’, ‘Illig’, and possibly also ‘Heinsohn’....

[Godzilla]

Believe what you want I don’t care for me I am a seeker of the Lord’s TRUTH not traditiion of men!

then why are you following joseph smith?

[Godzilla]

this is laughable at face value. 4000 changes to a document written in 1830's
Don't worry, give us another 1000 years or so and perhaps we will catch up with the 400,000 variants in the Greek NT!

Thank you for your admission that the changes in the bom (as recent as within the last decade) are the work of man and not god, therefore smith was not a prophet of god.

Now who is confusing translation and transmission errors? :-)

Must still be you, since there should be NO translation errors from english to english. So you are saying that the only correct and inspired version of the bom is the 1830 first edition, thank you for making my point so well for me.

[restornu]

Your reply sound like your are being spiteful!

[Godzilla]

Your reply sound like your are being spiteful!

Now really resty, you may be becoming overly sensitive if you consider my question - then why are you following joseph smith? - as spiteful. Remember, this is not for the thin-skinned.

[wendy1946]

The LDS church is proof positive that most people do not give a rat's rear end about theology. It serves mainly as a support system for middle class people trying to raise children and also as a very necessary counter-force to the power of the US government in areas in which 90% of the land is owned by BLAM. But, ultimately, a religion cannot be founded on provably false ideas like the book of Abraham. Real people and real events leave evidence.

The actual story of the bulk of the people of Israel who the Assyrians carried away in biblical times is here. Again, these people left real traces and real evidence, dres, names, culture in the later Khazer kingdom, a city named Samara on the Volga river etc. etc. etc.

If you care anything about Mormons or the Mormon church you need to work towards getting rid of the bom, "Kolob(TM)", and the rest of the sci-fi theology, ASAP.