Mary and Intercessory Prayer

Ave Mary ^ | 6/21/09 | Shoy Thomas

[netmilsmom]

>>Faith in Fatima and Lourdes is incompatible with Biblical Christianity.<<

Well, actually that’s YOUR interpretation of Biblical Christianity. Mine, which is the Catholic Church’s definition of Biblical Christianity, has no problem with it.

[netmilsmom]

>>point out the verses that require us to go to Mary for her intercession...<<

No one is required.
That’s silly.

[narses]

“Faith in Fatima and Lourdes is incompatible with Biblical Christianity”

Miracles do not happen? Prayer doesn’t work?

[lucias_clay]

To correct the above “I speak to the Lord of the Manor and quote a passage of scripture” I did not quote scripture here. I intended to and did not but did not notice before I hit post.

[Just mythoughts]

Reference?

Moses penned Genesis and in particular 3:15 in Hebrew not the Vulgate. So the reference would go back to that Hebrew language. Genesis 3:15 "it" i.e. Christ not a flesh being that would 'bruise' thy head. IF one reads this verse as written in the Hebrew one will know exactly what the sin was that cause Adam and Eve to figure out they were naked and covered up themselves with 'fig' leaves.

[Mr Rogers]

I suspect we’re largely in agreement on this issue. I have no objections to someone asking Mary to intercede for them. My Baptist church meets on Wednesday specifically to pray for the church and each other.

I only object if someone asks Mary to grant their prayers, which is also wrong in Catholic theology, I believe.

[bdeaner]

It says the prayers are oders...

Please be true to the Scripture. The verse in Rev. 5:8 states explicitly that the bowls of incense ARE the prayers of the saints. Exact verse: "...golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

In addition, there are many, many verses in Scripture regarding intercessory prayer, including prayer to those who have died and gone to Heaven. The Revelations scripture is just one example.

[boatbums]

As a Catholic I have Holy Scripture that tells me the Church is who I go to when there is a dispute and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.

Can you explain to me how 'gates' prevail against something? Don't they keep things out? Aren't they by nature defensive and not offensive?

BTW...Scripture is given for correction and instruction in righteousness.

[boatbums]

The communion of saints is the Church.

Agreed, but to be a saint means to be sanctified. Which we are in Christ Jesus. Sanctified means "set apart". It isn't only those whom the Roman Catholic Church deems so. All true Christians are part of Christ's body not just those who are members of the church of Rome.

BTW...you do know Peter said the Lord Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the church, not himself. I Peter 2:4-6

[boatbums]

In the major things - UNITY
In the minor things - LIBERTY
In all things - LOVE

[boatbums]

When y’all say Catholic Church, but you mean the Roman Catholic Church, could you just say so? It can be confusing.

[bdeaner]

All true Christians are part of Christ's body not just those who are members of the church of Rome.

What for you is a "true" Christian? Would you include Westboro Baptist Church members? What about The Church of Latter Day Saints? Branch Davidians? Peoples Temple? Where do you draw the line?

[boatbums]

I don’t. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart. He knows those who are his.

[bdeaner]

BTW...you do know Peter said the Lord Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the church, not himself. I Peter 2:4-6

Jesus is the cornerstone, yes. And Peter (Kepha) is the rock (Kepha) upon which it is built. The cornerstone of a building and its foundation are distinct aspects of the building's structure. The Bible doesn't contradict itself.

God bless.

[bdeaner]

I don’t. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart. He knows those who are his.

So, in that case, why are we having this conversation? Why don't you just let God sort me out? Aren't you called to minister? Why?

[boatbums]

I really don’t know why we are having this conversation other than you asked me a question in a general post and I politely replied.

I guess next time I should say “Are you just asking or do you really want to know?”

[Mr Rogers]

Now you are confusing me. Are you saying that Jesus is the cornerstone, and Peter is the rock foundation on which the church (and its cornerstone) rest?

That would have Jesus relying on Peter for support.

What did I miss?

[bdeaner]

What did I miss?

Jesus Christ gave authority and protection to, and therefore relied on, St. Peter to found (institute, inaugurate) that which would be His Church in which He Himself would be the cornerstone. To extend the metaphor, The Lord is both the builder and the cornerstone. St. Peter is the foundation/rock upon which the builder builds.

Note: Not rely in the sense of 'being dependent upon,' but the second meaning of rely, which is 'having confidence in.'

[bdeaner]

I'm asking a sincere question, not being flippant. Emotional tone doesn't always come across very well over the internet.

Let me put it another way.

If you believe that judgment of a "true" Christian is completely up to God, and you have no responsibility when it comes to discerning what is a "true" Christian or not, then why would you have any interest in ministering to others about your faith? Why would you have an interest in debating others on issues having to do with Christian doctrine? What motivates you to do it? Again, I'm being sincere.

The stakes are high in this question, if you think about it. If there is a true Christianity, and certain Christians are in error, is it the responsibility of "THE CHURCH" to correct those errors? Or does "THE CHURCH" (whatever that may be) just go about it's business and let everyone sort things out for themselves? What's the point of even having "THE CHURCH" if it has no teaching authority? And can "THE CHURCH" have any teaching authority if "THE CHURCH" has not certainty with regard to the Truth with a capital "T"?

God bless.

[RJR_fan]

Miracles do not happen? Prayer doesn’t work?

This kind of pragmatic reasoning led me (and many others) into the nightmare of "New Age" mysticism for years. After all, Edgar Cayce could diagnose ailments in his trances, and his "revelations" about reincarnation "came out of the same bottle," as one of his devotees put it. If it "works," don't ask too many questions?

(Parenthetically, my devotion to Jesus Christ probably impresses my Muslim friends with the same horror as your devotion to the BVM impresses me with. The difference is, the Trinity is a Biblical doctrine, not an idolatrous "association" of a human with God.)