Mary and Intercessory Prayer

Ave Mary ^ | 6/21/09 | Shoy Thomas

[bdeaner]

Q. Why do Catholics pray to Mary, instead of God?

A. When we say the Hail Mary or the Rosary, we don't pray to Mary as we pray to God; we are asking her to pray, or intercede, for us-"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death". As Christians, we are all, including Mary, praying to the Father through Jesus. Christians, including Catholics, are all agreed that there is one Mediator between god and man, the Man Jesus Christ (1 Tim.2:5). Prayer is essentially a dialogue between man and God. The misunderstanding that arises over "praying to Mary" is concerned with the use of the word "prayer". Our modern English comes from middle English, where the word "pray" perhaps meant something more than it means now. It can mean "to beg or implore", and in earlier times it would not have been unusual to hear the expression, "can you help me, I pray you". Possibly there is room for correcting our language so as to distinguish between prayer addressed to God, and that addressed to those closely associated with Him, such as the saints. Unlike prayer to God, personal communication with the saints does not involve adoration or praise which is due to God.

Q. Why ask for the intercession of Mary and the saints when Jesus is the sole Mediator between man and God?

A. Since Jesus is the sole Mediator between God and man, no one in heaven or on earth can take His place. However this does not make intercessory prayer wrong. St. James tells us (5:16) that "the heartfelt prayer of a good man works very powerfully", and there are many other examples of intercessory prayer being recommended in the New Testament (col. 1:9;2 Thes. 1:11; 2 Thes. 3:1-3). Christians seek the prayers of fellow believers, and some will make a great effort to obtain the prayers of a person who is considered to be holy, or to have a special prayer ministry, particularly in healing. Christians then act as mediators, but this does not violate Christ's role as sole Mediator, because ours is a secondary role dependent on His. Just as we are all members in the one Christ (Eph. 5:30; 4:15-16: 1 Cor.12:12-30), so we are all mediators in the one Mediator.

The difficulty seems to arise in asking for the prayers of someone who has left this earth. However, this shouldn't make any difference if we accept the resurrection of the dead. Those in heaven are also united to God (1 Cor.13:12; 1 Jn. 3:2) and are alive to Christ (Mk.12:24-27; 1 Cor. 15:22). God is God, not of the dead, but of the living (Matt. 22:32). The image of Christ as the vine, and us the branches that live through Him (Jn. 15:1), shows that if we are connected to Christ we are connected to one another. There is no reason to believe that those taken into heaven are suddenly cut off from the vine; there is good reason to believe that they are more fruitful. In the arms of God they are more alive than we are, and are more considerate of us than when they were on earth. In the Old Testament we read of examples of deceased men such as Onias and Jeremiah (2 Macc. 15:11-16) or Moses and Samuel (Jer. 15:1) as intercessors. Another instance which testifies to the continuance of intercession beyond the grave is the parable given by Our Lord Himself, in which Lazarus is seen in Abraham's bosom (Lk. 16:19-31). If Abraham, not yet ascended on high, had charge of Lazarus, then there is no problem with the intercession of saints united with God on high. We also learn in the book of Revelation (5:8; 8:3) that the people of god in heaven and angels place the prayers of the holy on earth at God's feet.

Graffiti in the Catacombs bear witness to the fact that the saints were invoked by early Christians. For example, in the catacomb of Saint Sebastian invocations such as "Paul, Peter, pray for Erote, intercede" and Paul, Peter, pray for Victor", are clearly inscribed on the walls. There is evidence from very early times of belief in Mary's intercession, from the archaeology of the Holy Land, the catacombs, Apocryphal writings and the early Fathers of the Church. Properly understood then, the saints and angels can be "prayed" to, and they then take these prayers to God. Most Catholics can attest to instances where it has been better to have our friends in heaven, especially Mary, praying with them.

Q. Asking Mary or any on else in heaven to pray on our behalf seems to be an obstacle between us and God. Why not pray to God directly?

A. This is a distorted picture of our relationship with God and Heaven, as it gives the impression of having to go through a chain of subordinates to get to the man at the top. God knows all our wants better than we ourselves know them. He knows what we are going to pray for before the prayer is formed in our own heart (Matt. 6:8), and is infinitely more willing to help us than we are to ask for His help. This then begs the question: why ask anyone to pray for us- or even for that matter: why pray directly to God, since He knows our needs? No other person in heaven or on earth can take god's place. Yet the Bible tells us to pray for one another, and Christians have little problem with this. Prayer is essentially a gift from God, and in intercessory prayer we share this gift and express our love for one another. God does not need our prayers to bolster His own power, yet out of love He wills us to be a praying family, and He answers our prayers.

This idea can also be extended to the saints, who are part of the same household of faith. However, in heaven they are fully united to God, and consequently are more loving, more attuned to our needs and concerned with our salvation than we are. This form of mediation can therefore be more effective than that of the faithful on earth, but it is not something the saints possess on their own. It is derived from the Lord and does not bypass Him. The medium of communication we have with those who have gone to heaven is Christ Himself, for He is the one mediator. Intercessory prayer with those who will be our friends in heaven for all eternity is an expression of the family spirit in the Church. It is a communion between the saints and the faithful on earth, whereby all are involved in one another's eternal salvation.

Q. How can a human being such as Mary hear and respond to the thousands of simultaneous prayers of Catholics, in many different countries, at the same time? Surely no one but God can listen to so many petitions at once.

A. It is true that in our humanity it would be impossible for us to converse with more than two people, let alone thousands, at the same time. However, it is important to remember that nothing is impossible for God, and in the eternity of heaven there is neither past not future as we understand it; everything happens in one great Present. Those in heaven are completely at one with God and, like Him, are beyond the restrictions of space and time. It does not imply that they are divine, it is only through God's will that Mary and the saints can communicate with us. The medium of communication is Christ, the only Mediator.

Q. Isn't the Rosary a Catholic devotion in which ten prayers are said to Mary for every one said to God the Father? Doesn't this mean that Catholics prefer Mary to God?

A. The implication here is that Catholics prefer Mary ten to one over God. If the preference were true, the ratio would be nearer to 10 to 3, as it is common to include the "Glory be to the Father…" and "O my Jesus" prayers as well as the "Our Father". This is beside the point anyway, as the Rosary is not meant to be a sort of opinion poll. It is a blend of vocal and mental prayer, consisting of beautiful gospel-based prayers and meditations on the life of Christ and His Mother. When we address Mary as "Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee", in the first part of the Hail Mary prayer, we are simply using those words given by God when he spoke to Mary through the angel Gabriel. In this Rosary meditation we are repeatedly asking Mary, as our Mother, to pray for us. We do not ask god to pray for us, as all prayer goes to Him anyway. It is the presence of Jesus which makes it possible for us to speak to His Mother. With this in mind, it is clear that in this form of prayer there is no question of giving Mary precedence over god. The Rosary makes us do what she never ceased to do, meditate incessantly on Jesus. Just as she "pondered all these things in her heart" (Lk.2:51), the Rosary shows us the mysteries of Jesus through her immaculate heart. The Rosary is Jesus-centered, and is prayed by non-Catholics. It isn't just for Catholics, it's meant for all us.

Q. Some of my Christian friends are turned off by repetitive prayers such as the Rosary. They claim that it was condemned by Jesus when He said, "In your prayers do not babble as the pagans do, for they think that by using many words they will make themselves heard" (Matt. 6:7). Is this true?

A. Firstly, it should be remembered that our prayer is a dialogue with a real person, and it is important that we pray with the heart, instead of just fitting our prayers into a limited time and babbling the words. The Rosary can be a mindless rote, or it can be an opening of the heart to a state of peaceful contemplation before God by being joined together in continuous prayer with Mary. Repetitive prayer can be an aid to meditation. Before Pentecost Mary and the faithful were all joined together in continuous prayer (Acts 1:4), and no doubt many prayers were repeated as they waited for the coming of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ, far from condemning repetitions in prayer, repeated the same prayer three times to His Father during His agony (Matt. 26:39-45), and granted the gift of sight to the repeated prayers of the blind men (Matt. 20:30-31). In the litany of thanksgiving in Psalm 136, the phrase "His love is everlasting" is repeated 27 times, and the heavenly host never cease to chant before God "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty" (Rev. 4:8).

In the passage from Mathew (6:5-8), Our Lord was teaching that prayer should come from the heart rather than the lips. It should be humble before God (Lk.18:10-14) and before people (Matt.6:5-6) and Christ warns against offering long prayers "for show" (Mk. 12:40). The actual number of prayers or the excellence of the words we use does not increase the chances of being heard. Some argue that the Rosary involves vain repetition, but our prayer can never be in vain if it brings us closer to God. All prayer is heard if the individual makes it with faith (Matt. 21:22), trusting in God's goodness (Matt.6: 8; 7:7-11) and in the name of Jesus (Jn. 14:13-14; Matt. 18:19-20). With this in mind, it is our persistence (Lk. 11:5-13; 18:1-8) and the time we spend with God, rather than the actual number of prayers we offer, that makes prayer effective. The prayers that make up the Rosary are simple in form, yet fundamental to Christian faith. The very fact that one is limited to these set prayers can effectively restrict the occurrence of spiritual pride. As we pray, God is listening to our hearts rather than to the words that pass our lips. The important factor is the sincerity of prayer - that it should be simple and from the heart.

[netmilsmom]

>>Faith in Fatima and Lourdes is incompatible with Biblical Christianity.<<

Well, actually that’s YOUR interpretation of Biblical Christianity. Mine, which is the Catholic Church’s definition of Biblical Christianity, has no problem with it.

[netmilsmom]

>>point out the verses that require us to go to Mary for her intercession...<<

No one is required.
That’s silly.

[narses]

“Faith in Fatima and Lourdes is incompatible with Biblical Christianity”

Miracles do not happen? Prayer doesn’t work?

[lucias_clay]

To correct the above “I speak to the Lord of the Manor and quote a passage of scripture” I did not quote scripture here. I intended to and did not but did not notice before I hit post.

[Just mythoughts]

Reference?

Moses penned Genesis and in particular 3:15 in Hebrew not the Vulgate. So the reference would go back to that Hebrew language. Genesis 3:15 "it" i.e. Christ not a flesh being that would 'bruise' thy head. IF one reads this verse as written in the Hebrew one will know exactly what the sin was that cause Adam and Eve to figure out they were naked and covered up themselves with 'fig' leaves.

[Mr Rogers]

I suspect we’re largely in agreement on this issue. I have no objections to someone asking Mary to intercede for them. My Baptist church meets on Wednesday specifically to pray for the church and each other.

I only object if someone asks Mary to grant their prayers, which is also wrong in Catholic theology, I believe.

[bdeaner]

It says the prayers are oders...

Please be true to the Scripture. The verse in Rev. 5:8 states explicitly that the bowls of incense ARE the prayers of the saints. Exact verse: "...golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

In addition, there are many, many verses in Scripture regarding intercessory prayer, including prayer to those who have died and gone to Heaven. The Revelations scripture is just one example.

[boatbums]

As a Catholic I have Holy Scripture that tells me the Church is who I go to when there is a dispute and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.

Can you explain to me how 'gates' prevail against something? Don't they keep things out? Aren't they by nature defensive and not offensive?

BTW...Scripture is given for correction and instruction in righteousness.

[boatbums]

The communion of saints is the Church.

Agreed, but to be a saint means to be sanctified. Which we are in Christ Jesus. Sanctified means "set apart". It isn't only those whom the Roman Catholic Church deems so. All true Christians are part of Christ's body not just those who are members of the church of Rome.

BTW...you do know Peter said the Lord Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the church, not himself. I Peter 2:4-6

[boatbums]

In the major things - UNITY
In the minor things - LIBERTY
In all things - LOVE

[boatbums]

When y’all say Catholic Church, but you mean the Roman Catholic Church, could you just say so? It can be confusing.

[bdeaner]

All true Christians are part of Christ's body not just those who are members of the church of Rome.

What for you is a "true" Christian? Would you include Westboro Baptist Church members? What about The Church of Latter Day Saints? Branch Davidians? Peoples Temple? Where do you draw the line?

[boatbums]

I don’t. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart. He knows those who are his.

[bdeaner]

BTW...you do know Peter said the Lord Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the church, not himself. I Peter 2:4-6

Jesus is the cornerstone, yes. And Peter (Kepha) is the rock (Kepha) upon which it is built. The cornerstone of a building and its foundation are distinct aspects of the building's structure. The Bible doesn't contradict itself.

God bless.

[bdeaner]

I don’t. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart. He knows those who are his.

So, in that case, why are we having this conversation? Why don't you just let God sort me out? Aren't you called to minister? Why?

[boatbums]

I really don’t know why we are having this conversation other than you asked me a question in a general post and I politely replied.

I guess next time I should say “Are you just asking or do you really want to know?”

[Mr Rogers]

Now you are confusing me. Are you saying that Jesus is the cornerstone, and Peter is the rock foundation on which the church (and its cornerstone) rest?

That would have Jesus relying on Peter for support.

What did I miss?

[bdeaner]

What did I miss?

Jesus Christ gave authority and protection to, and therefore relied on, St. Peter to found (institute, inaugurate) that which would be His Church in which He Himself would be the cornerstone. To extend the metaphor, The Lord is both the builder and the cornerstone. St. Peter is the foundation/rock upon which the builder builds.

Note: Not rely in the sense of 'being dependent upon,' but the second meaning of rely, which is 'having confidence in.'

[bdeaner]

I'm asking a sincere question, not being flippant. Emotional tone doesn't always come across very well over the internet.

Let me put it another way.

If you believe that judgment of a "true" Christian is completely up to God, and you have no responsibility when it comes to discerning what is a "true" Christian or not, then why would you have any interest in ministering to others about your faith? Why would you have an interest in debating others on issues having to do with Christian doctrine? What motivates you to do it? Again, I'm being sincere.

The stakes are high in this question, if you think about it. If there is a true Christianity, and certain Christians are in error, is it the responsibility of "THE CHURCH" to correct those errors? Or does "THE CHURCH" (whatever that may be) just go about it's business and let everyone sort things out for themselves? What's the point of even having "THE CHURCH" if it has no teaching authority? And can "THE CHURCH" have any teaching authority if "THE CHURCH" has not certainty with regard to the Truth with a capital "T"?

God bless.

[RJR_fan]

Miracles do not happen? Prayer doesn’t work?

This kind of pragmatic reasoning led me (and many others) into the nightmare of "New Age" mysticism for years. After all, Edgar Cayce could diagnose ailments in his trances, and his "revelations" about reincarnation "came out of the same bottle," as one of his devotees put it. If it "works," don't ask too many questions?

(Parenthetically, my devotion to Jesus Christ probably impresses my Muslim friends with the same horror as your devotion to the BVM impresses me with. The difference is, the Trinity is a Biblical doctrine, not an idolatrous "association" of a human with God.)