Mary and Intercessory Prayer

Ave Mary ^ | 6/21/09 | Shoy Thomas

[bdeaner]

Q. Why do Catholics pray to Mary, instead of God?

A. When we say the Hail Mary or the Rosary, we don't pray to Mary as we pray to God; we are asking her to pray, or intercede, for us-"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death". As Christians, we are all, including Mary, praying to the Father through Jesus. Christians, including Catholics, are all agreed that there is one Mediator between god and man, the Man Jesus Christ (1 Tim.2:5). Prayer is essentially a dialogue between man and God. The misunderstanding that arises over "praying to Mary" is concerned with the use of the word "prayer". Our modern English comes from middle English, where the word "pray" perhaps meant something more than it means now. It can mean "to beg or implore", and in earlier times it would not have been unusual to hear the expression, "can you help me, I pray you". Possibly there is room for correcting our language so as to distinguish between prayer addressed to God, and that addressed to those closely associated with Him, such as the saints. Unlike prayer to God, personal communication with the saints does not involve adoration or praise which is due to God.

Q. Why ask for the intercession of Mary and the saints when Jesus is the sole Mediator between man and God?

A. Since Jesus is the sole Mediator between God and man, no one in heaven or on earth can take His place. However this does not make intercessory prayer wrong. St. James tells us (5:16) that "the heartfelt prayer of a good man works very powerfully", and there are many other examples of intercessory prayer being recommended in the New Testament (col. 1:9;2 Thes. 1:11; 2 Thes. 3:1-3). Christians seek the prayers of fellow believers, and some will make a great effort to obtain the prayers of a person who is considered to be holy, or to have a special prayer ministry, particularly in healing. Christians then act as mediators, but this does not violate Christ's role as sole Mediator, because ours is a secondary role dependent on His. Just as we are all members in the one Christ (Eph. 5:30; 4:15-16: 1 Cor.12:12-30), so we are all mediators in the one Mediator.

The difficulty seems to arise in asking for the prayers of someone who has left this earth. However, this shouldn't make any difference if we accept the resurrection of the dead. Those in heaven are also united to God (1 Cor.13:12; 1 Jn. 3:2) and are alive to Christ (Mk.12:24-27; 1 Cor. 15:22). God is God, not of the dead, but of the living (Matt. 22:32). The image of Christ as the vine, and us the branches that live through Him (Jn. 15:1), shows that if we are connected to Christ we are connected to one another. There is no reason to believe that those taken into heaven are suddenly cut off from the vine; there is good reason to believe that they are more fruitful. In the arms of God they are more alive than we are, and are more considerate of us than when they were on earth. In the Old Testament we read of examples of deceased men such as Onias and Jeremiah (2 Macc. 15:11-16) or Moses and Samuel (Jer. 15:1) as intercessors. Another instance which testifies to the continuance of intercession beyond the grave is the parable given by Our Lord Himself, in which Lazarus is seen in Abraham's bosom (Lk. 16:19-31). If Abraham, not yet ascended on high, had charge of Lazarus, then there is no problem with the intercession of saints united with God on high. We also learn in the book of Revelation (5:8; 8:3) that the people of god in heaven and angels place the prayers of the holy on earth at God's feet.

Graffiti in the Catacombs bear witness to the fact that the saints were invoked by early Christians. For example, in the catacomb of Saint Sebastian invocations such as "Paul, Peter, pray for Erote, intercede" and Paul, Peter, pray for Victor", are clearly inscribed on the walls. There is evidence from very early times of belief in Mary's intercession, from the archaeology of the Holy Land, the catacombs, Apocryphal writings and the early Fathers of the Church. Properly understood then, the saints and angels can be "prayed" to, and they then take these prayers to God. Most Catholics can attest to instances where it has been better to have our friends in heaven, especially Mary, praying with them.

Q. Asking Mary or any on else in heaven to pray on our behalf seems to be an obstacle between us and God. Why not pray to God directly?

A. This is a distorted picture of our relationship with God and Heaven, as it gives the impression of having to go through a chain of subordinates to get to the man at the top. God knows all our wants better than we ourselves know them. He knows what we are going to pray for before the prayer is formed in our own heart (Matt. 6:8), and is infinitely more willing to help us than we are to ask for His help. This then begs the question: why ask anyone to pray for us- or even for that matter: why pray directly to God, since He knows our needs? No other person in heaven or on earth can take god's place. Yet the Bible tells us to pray for one another, and Christians have little problem with this. Prayer is essentially a gift from God, and in intercessory prayer we share this gift and express our love for one another. God does not need our prayers to bolster His own power, yet out of love He wills us to be a praying family, and He answers our prayers.

This idea can also be extended to the saints, who are part of the same household of faith. However, in heaven they are fully united to God, and consequently are more loving, more attuned to our needs and concerned with our salvation than we are. This form of mediation can therefore be more effective than that of the faithful on earth, but it is not something the saints possess on their own. It is derived from the Lord and does not bypass Him. The medium of communication we have with those who have gone to heaven is Christ Himself, for He is the one mediator. Intercessory prayer with those who will be our friends in heaven for all eternity is an expression of the family spirit in the Church. It is a communion between the saints and the faithful on earth, whereby all are involved in one another's eternal salvation.

Q. How can a human being such as Mary hear and respond to the thousands of simultaneous prayers of Catholics, in many different countries, at the same time? Surely no one but God can listen to so many petitions at once.

A. It is true that in our humanity it would be impossible for us to converse with more than two people, let alone thousands, at the same time. However, it is important to remember that nothing is impossible for God, and in the eternity of heaven there is neither past not future as we understand it; everything happens in one great Present. Those in heaven are completely at one with God and, like Him, are beyond the restrictions of space and time. It does not imply that they are divine, it is only through God's will that Mary and the saints can communicate with us. The medium of communication is Christ, the only Mediator.

Q. Isn't the Rosary a Catholic devotion in which ten prayers are said to Mary for every one said to God the Father? Doesn't this mean that Catholics prefer Mary to God?

A. The implication here is that Catholics prefer Mary ten to one over God. If the preference were true, the ratio would be nearer to 10 to 3, as it is common to include the "Glory be to the Father…" and "O my Jesus" prayers as well as the "Our Father". This is beside the point anyway, as the Rosary is not meant to be a sort of opinion poll. It is a blend of vocal and mental prayer, consisting of beautiful gospel-based prayers and meditations on the life of Christ and His Mother. When we address Mary as "Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee", in the first part of the Hail Mary prayer, we are simply using those words given by God when he spoke to Mary through the angel Gabriel. In this Rosary meditation we are repeatedly asking Mary, as our Mother, to pray for us. We do not ask god to pray for us, as all prayer goes to Him anyway. It is the presence of Jesus which makes it possible for us to speak to His Mother. With this in mind, it is clear that in this form of prayer there is no question of giving Mary precedence over god. The Rosary makes us do what she never ceased to do, meditate incessantly on Jesus. Just as she "pondered all these things in her heart" (Lk.2:51), the Rosary shows us the mysteries of Jesus through her immaculate heart. The Rosary is Jesus-centered, and is prayed by non-Catholics. It isn't just for Catholics, it's meant for all us.

Q. Some of my Christian friends are turned off by repetitive prayers such as the Rosary. They claim that it was condemned by Jesus when He said, "In your prayers do not babble as the pagans do, for they think that by using many words they will make themselves heard" (Matt. 6:7). Is this true?

A. Firstly, it should be remembered that our prayer is a dialogue with a real person, and it is important that we pray with the heart, instead of just fitting our prayers into a limited time and babbling the words. The Rosary can be a mindless rote, or it can be an opening of the heart to a state of peaceful contemplation before God by being joined together in continuous prayer with Mary. Repetitive prayer can be an aid to meditation. Before Pentecost Mary and the faithful were all joined together in continuous prayer (Acts 1:4), and no doubt many prayers were repeated as they waited for the coming of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ, far from condemning repetitions in prayer, repeated the same prayer three times to His Father during His agony (Matt. 26:39-45), and granted the gift of sight to the repeated prayers of the blind men (Matt. 20:30-31). In the litany of thanksgiving in Psalm 136, the phrase "His love is everlasting" is repeated 27 times, and the heavenly host never cease to chant before God "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty" (Rev. 4:8).

In the passage from Mathew (6:5-8), Our Lord was teaching that prayer should come from the heart rather than the lips. It should be humble before God (Lk.18:10-14) and before people (Matt.6:5-6) and Christ warns against offering long prayers "for show" (Mk. 12:40). The actual number of prayers or the excellence of the words we use does not increase the chances of being heard. Some argue that the Rosary involves vain repetition, but our prayer can never be in vain if it brings us closer to God. All prayer is heard if the individual makes it with faith (Matt. 21:22), trusting in God's goodness (Matt.6: 8; 7:7-11) and in the name of Jesus (Jn. 14:13-14; Matt. 18:19-20). With this in mind, it is our persistence (Lk. 11:5-13; 18:1-8) and the time we spend with God, rather than the actual number of prayers we offer, that makes prayer effective. The prayers that make up the Rosary are simple in form, yet fundamental to Christian faith. The very fact that one is limited to these set prayers can effectively restrict the occurrence of spiritual pride. As we pray, God is listening to our hearts rather than to the words that pass our lips. The important factor is the sincerity of prayer - that it should be simple and from the heart.

[bdeaner]

[netmilsmom]

You and I are in full agreement.
But you have to understand that when Catholics talk about praying to Mary, we say it from the POV of the Catechism, which is an intersession POV.

It is the intent of the petitioner. Others look at it and see it from their POV, i.e. praying to Mary as a god.

So assigning intent is really not correct. We don’t do that.

[netmilsmom]

That had nothing to do with the word “she”.

[netmilsmom]

>>It can be confusing.<<

Sorry you’re confused.
The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. In common usage, The Catholic Church is the Roman Catholic Church.

Hope that helps.

[Iscool]

Please be true to the Scripture. The verse in Rev. 5:8 states explicitly that the bowls of incense ARE the prayers of the saints. Exact verse: "...golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

OK...Let's look at it...

Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

You've got Chapter 5:8 figured out...What about this one???

Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

These guys have white raiment on... Are they Christians of the church age??? We are said to have been 'washed white'; not dressed in white clothes...Regardless,

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Here are 7 lamps of fire which are the 7 Spirits of God...So God has more than one Spirit...What's that all about???

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Now wait a minute...Just a minute ago, the seven Spirits were seven fires...Now those seven Spirits are seven horns and they each have an eye...

What's going on here??? You need to explain this stuff...

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Obviously the saints are live saints on earth...Saints in heaven would have no need to pray to God...They'll just talk to Him...

So the prayers that start out from earth end up in golden vials...But you don't hear them...You don't read them...You smell them...Your prayers get smelled...They are of a good odor...

I wonder how long all this takes...You pray to Mary, or St. Bill and the prayer ends up in a gold vial...Just one of only 24...

Out of the many verses that describe this event, you and your church have picked up on the words saint, prayer and odor/incense and fabricated a story about how your Catholic Saints take your prayers to Jesus...

Outside of those three words, you have to trash every word in these verses because they couldn't possibly fit in with your story...And intelligent, educated people fall for it...Boggles my mind...

[Iscool]

Jesus is the cornerstone, yes. And Peter (Kepha) is the rock (Kepha) upon which it is built.

No...Jesus did not say 'You are the rock'...Jesus said 'upon this rock'...But here is one that removes any doubt whatsoever who the rock is...

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

[Ditter]

Very nice, but I am not convinced. I will continue to direct my prayers to God through Jesus. That being said, I am not dishonoring Mary, I am just not praying to or through her.

[bdeaner]

I appreciate your thoughts. You stated,

I will continue to direct my prayers to God through Jesus.

Do you mean that you will never ask anyone to pray for you, ever? You will only go directly to God for prayers?

[Ditter]

I will continue to go directly to Jesus Christ, the Son of God and through him to God Almighty. It is possible that friends and family have prayed for me but I have never requested that they do so.

[bdeaner]

I will continue to go directly to Jesus Christ, the Son of God and through him to God Almighty. It is possible that friends and family have prayed for me but I have never requested that they do so.

Interesting. I guess I don't understand why not.

Our Lord said to His disciples:
"For where two or more are gathered together in My Name, I am there in the midst of them."

God bless.

[Ditter]

You asked me if I had ever asked anyone to pray for me, not if I had gathered together and prayed for others. Two different things. Of course I have prayed for others, I pray for my family and friends and MY country, all the time.

Why have I not asked anyone to pray for me? Privacy, I guess, I don’t spread my concerns, my fears, my troubles around. I go directly to the Lord, tell me what is wrong with that?

[Theo]

See, I don’t understand the difference between “pray” and “ask.” What is the difference, pray tell? Isn’t “pray” from the Latin for “entreat,” AKA “ask”?

[Salvation]

Can’t help you with the Latin, sorry.

[Theo]

Christ did not create the Roman Catholic Church. As far as I can tell, He never visited Rome during His earthly ministry.

Yes, Christ established His Church, which includes all His followers.

[Theo]

You indicate that there’s “a big difference” between “pray” and “ask.” What is that difference?

If I ask the Lord for something, does that mean I’m not praying to Him? If I pray to Him, does that exclude asking Him for anything?

Seriously, what’s the difference between “pray” and “ask”?

[bdeaner]

Oh, okay. Interesting! So you prefer to pray for others than to have others pray for you. There is something holy in that — keeping the focus on others. I certainly don’t have a problem with it. I think the best prayer of all is, “Thy will be done.” Period. Can’t go wrong with that one.

[bdeaner]

I invite you to attend a Catholic Mass sometime -- just sit in the back of the church and observe. Watch the Book of Revelations come alive.

See: Revelations and the Catholic Mass, for starters.

For a more in-depth analysis, see Scott Hahn's The Lamb's Supper.

God bless.

[bdeaner]

The Book of Revelation and the Holy Mass

The Book of Revelation shows us glimpses of the heavenly liturgy – Jesus Christ’s once and for all sacrifice eternally present in heaven. This is why the Church has always incorporated the elements that John saw in the heavenly liturgy into her earthly liturgy, for they are one and the same liturgical action of Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Rev. 1:6, 20:6 - heaven's identification of the priesthood of the faithful is the same as the Church's identification on earth.
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 - there are lampstands or Menorahs in heaven. These have always been used in the Holy Mass of the Church on earth.
Rev. 2:17 - there is manna in heaven given to the faithful. This is the same as the Eucharistic manna given to the faithful at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 4:8 - heaven's liturgical chant "Holy, Holy, Holy" is the same that is used in the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 - heaven's emphasis on the intercession of the saints is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 - there is incense in heaven which has always been part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 6:9 - the martyrs who are seen under the heavenly altar is similar to the Church's tradition of keeping relics of saints under the earthly altars.
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 - there are priests ("presbyteroi") in heaven. Priests offer sacrifice. Our earthly priests participate with the heavenly priests in offering Jesus' eternal sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 8:1 - the silent contemplation in heaven is similar to our silent contemplation at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 - there is an altar in heaven. But no altar is needed unless a sacrifice is being offered in heaven. This is the same sacrifice that is offered on the altars used in the Holy Masses on earth.
Rev. 12:1-6, 13-17 - heaven's emphasis on the Blessed Virgin Mary is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 14:4 - there are consecrated celibates in heaven, as there are with our Catholic priests and religious on earth.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4,8,10,12,17; 21:9 - there are chalices (or bowls) in the heavenly liturgy. This is like the chalices used to offer Christ's sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:5 - there is a tent or tabernacle in heaven. Tabernacles are used to store the Eucharist at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev.19:9 - the consummation of the Lamb at heaven's marriage supper is the same as the Lamb's supper in the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 7:9; 14:6 - the catholicity or universality of heaven as God's family is the essence of the Catholic faith on earth.


http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the...#eucharist-IIf

[Ditter]

Holy? Me? No, I am a regular old sinner. I interpret the Bible to pray in private for myself and in church/groups for others. I pray for others in private as well. As far as myself is concerned, I ask God to show me the way he wants me to go and yes, defiantly “Thy will be done”.

[bdeaner]

I appreciate your humility. We are all sinners, yes. With the grace of God, our actions can become sanctified. God bless.