Posted on 06/19/2009 3:54:08 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02
Huguenot ping
Yes, France was once a great nation, a leader in science, the center of European civilization for much of history. But running through its history was an absolutist, intolerant, tendency caused, in large part, by the alliance of a corrupt, anti-Biblical, materialistic church with a grasping central monarchy. Britain avoided that by embracing Reformation culture, which ultimately led to freedom and advancement of the masses of people, without the class warfare and anti-clericalism seen in Catholic countries.
They’re all Europeans. I think you attributed unsubstantiatable motives to them. They’ve rarely needed a reason to do things.
You are certainly correct about that.
"The Family" is still around, and fairly well assimilated into normal life. They continue to exhibit greater than average abilities.
Believe it or not there are hundreds of people at work, on their own, unpaid, voluntarily digging through a millenium of European records trying to tie together a complete genealogy for them.
You wrote:
“Conquest of the New World by Catholic powers like Spain was rapacious exploitation of the native people by warlords who were little better than pirates.”
Oh, and the Protestant Dutch and English had no pirates and never took advantage of natives? ROFLMAO! You never heard of Edward Teach or Henry Morgan?
“That’s why Latin America is incapable of political stability, free economies, and limited government, much like its European parent nations.”
So there’s no corruption in the UK? Are you serious?
“As for Islam and Turkey, you seem to share Hussein 0bama’s nitwit ideas.”
No, I’m just reporting the facts. Can you refute them?
“The Turks were central Asian nomads known for nothing but extreme cruelty and violence.”
Yep. Then again, that’s how some people probably felt about the Dutch and English 300 years ago. And extreme cruelty and violence in no way means a nation will not accomplish economic, military or scientific success. Holding on to those things might be a different matter, however.
“Islam was a parasitic culture whose so-called achievements were actually due to the residual cultures of the dhimmis of the once-great cultures they defeated militarily (Byzantium, Persia, Egypt, India).”
That might be so. Then again, the British were parasites and so were the Dutch. They raided Spanish ships and became rich (off treasure the Spanish mined or stole from South America). Britain became rich - or thought it had - through it’s mercantile policies and conquering of overseas colonies (including US until 1775/1776).
“Merely attaining power by military force, plunder, and enslavement is not admirable.”
Tell that to the Brits. And how do you think the Dutch did not get rich by conquest of overseas colonies and the looting of entire nations?
“Heck, the Soviet Union and Communist China would be great societies by your criteria.”
And they weren’t in terms of power and influence? How much of our debt does China now own? Oh, and yeah, and what’s their population again? Four times that of the USA? Yeah, China is a great power. I would not want to live there. I would not want to live in a 16th century Britian either, however.
“What I am saying, and it is indisputable, is that free societies, capitalism, and limited government are unique outgrowths of Reformation culture, esp. that of Great Britain and its colonies.”
That may be - although someone could make a very good case that capitalism existed already in 14th century Florence. Then again, it is indisputable that ideas like individualism, individual rights, natural law rights are all products of the Middle Ages. See Brian Tierney, The Idea of Natural Rights.
And by the way, there is no system of government on earth more oriented toward limited government than feudalism - and that was very medieval. Our modern society today is much more centralized, in fact.
You wrote:
“Part, all of him ~ makes little difference. He was eaten (in part), but cooked (as a whole). The Hurons were not completely savage!”
He was not cooked. The Hurons poured boiling water over him to mock baptism.
The Danish King had murdered a bunch of Swedish nobles. The Vassa King (I believe he was called) had to create a new nobility to get his country back in business. He brought in wealthy, intelligent, highly trained or ruthless men from other countries.
Within a short time he became the King of The North with the takeover of Finland. He extended Sweden into Litnuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, the German States, Denmark, Scandia, etc.
By the time the Danish Phase of the Thirty Years War came around he and his successors had secured a permanent alliance with France.
There was little persecution of Catholics in the Scandinavian lands ~ mostly because there weren't enough Catholics to bother with, and where there were lots of Catholics the Swedish church simply didn't attempt the Lutheran alternative.
Kind of a shorthand reason about why Poles are Catholics.
Personally I always thought traditional Vietnamese noodle dishes sucked.
I like Chinese food much more. More flavor.
Dont know...
Why dont you trace some of the families...
The Knights Templar were hated and hunted...
The family name was Poythress. It is said by some in the family that they fled to Holland and took a ship from Holland and eventually went to Scotland by way of the North Sea. From there they went to Ireland. When they came to America, they settled in VA. Some in the family said that they were Scots-Irish.
You know, I'm not real happy to hear about how my Catholic ancestors suffered for their faith under the likes of Cromwell or William of Orange. But, it's time to move away from that stuff, not wallow in it.
We're in the 21st Century, and Christianity is under attack. If people can't see how dredging up old animosities is not playing in to the hands of satan himself, then we are doomed.
I’ve also heard I’m descended from one line of French Huguenots that escaped the “unpleasantness”, but haven’t been able to fully research the line.
Now that there's funny, I don't care who you are.
TN: It would appear that he is referencing the burning at the stake of a masonic knight Jacques DeMolay and some of his fellow Knights Templar in response and compliance with a papal request. Phillip the Fair of France was an outstanding monarch. His daughter Isabella married Longshanks’ lavender son Edward II in an attempt at uniting dynasties which turned out disastrously because of Edward II’s faggotry. Isabella went back to France became involved with a French knight and then returned to dismember Edward II alive. You can bet that it was the French knight who sired Edward III by Isabella and not lavender Edward II. If so, Edward III was guilty of patricide for ordering the execution of that knight after Edward III attained the age when he could be crowned king.
The system of government was a theocracy which encouraged the mortification of the flesh, celebrated death and depopulated most of occitania. Marriage was considered immoral. Weaving cloth was promoted as the highest form of existence and the material culture (think farming, manufacturing, and craftsmanship) was considered part of the "bad" side of life.
The cathars worshiped a duality that mortified the physical body as evil and elevated the spiritual principles to the extent that monastic life was the pinnacle of human existence. The family was considered just plain wrong. Children were left to die and were seen as manifestations of the evil of the physical world.
It was generally considered by the rest of the european western world that the several hundred years of Cathar culture had resulted in a kernel of insanity that could destroy Christianity.
The Cathar culture was developed over several hundred years, under the nose of the catholic church and is believed to have been imported from Malta - home of the Knights Templar who also had found their way into a deviant Christian culture. (They could afford the lifestyle)
Even Raymond of Toulouse, when by the pope asked to intervene and militarily take over the province declined the first time he was asked on the grounds that it wasn't his fight and why should he spend money doing work that wasn't going to enrich him?
Eventually he went into the Cathar region and slaughtered every man woman and child on the premise that 'God will know his own' or 'kill them all, god will sort them out. Cathar culture could not be stopped otherwise.
The Cathar church had become very rich and their monasteries were loaded with booty by the time Raymond made his move. He was the only local noble willing and able to 'take back' occitania for western civilization.
The 'Islamic revolution' and spread of anti-christian culture has nothing on the Cathar civilization. The extent of the depopulation of the area is still felt today. Southeastern france is a curiosity. French tourists bus around Languedoc and visit historical sites like we go to civil war re-enactments.
There is nothing in western culture remotely close to the Cathar culture for us to see and experience in order to understand why they were a 'heresy'. But the facts speak for themselves and the Cathar world was a cancer that was metastasizing itself on the body of western tradition.
I only knew because the name survived through many males down to my g-grandmother..
Plus we had my g-g-grandfather’s Bible with his history...
Plus the name is one of the most famous amongest the Loyalists...
and not because of Laura Ingersolll Secord...
(Laura was married to the brother of my Stephen..)
(I tossed that in because obscue people want to be related to her..LOL)
Anyhoo there were many Secords who were Loyalists...
James, John and Peter were 3 brothers and many of their sons were also...
(I know it sounds like the Mount of transfiguration...but that was their names..
Except James had been baptised Jacques as a baby...)
“The Secords of Canada”
and many Loyalists came from Huguenot families...
They are wrongly called “French Canadian”...
THe families did not start out that way...
They were born in the US...
They came originally from France helped mainly by England...
They swore alliegencew to the English Crown...
They taught their children and childrens children to be loyal to the country that saved them...
The US was English for about 100 years...
In my family the grandson and g-grandson of the originals and his sons became Loyalists...
If you have some Loyalist blood in your lines, that may be a Huguenot family...
However tens of thousands of Americans went north ...
Can you ask the person you heard it from for more info ???
Accoding to the movie Brave Heart, it was William Wallace who sired Edwaqrd III...
and Edward Wallace who was dismembered...
But I know a little of the Knights Templar...
From what I’ve read they were the good guys...
I doubt if Ed III would have known it was his father...
Isabella would never have told...
And his name was? My direct ancestor, Peter Anderson, (b. before 1620 in the Gotenburg area) arrived in New Sweden on the Kalmar Nykel (sp.?) and became the skipper of the Governor's boat that he used to access his house on an island near what is now Philadelphia. He sailed back to Amsterdam to collect his wages, returned to Sweden to collect a bride, and brought her back to New Sweden where they settled to establish a farm and raise their family in Kingsessing. He and his family were among the founders of Gloria Dei (Swedish) Church and are listed on the roll.
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