[SkyDancer]

I think you have that wrong. It’s not anti-Mormon, it’s anti-Mormon theology .....

[varmintman]

The Mormon church as I see it serves three (at least) major purposes: It functions as a support group for middle class people trying to raise children; as a very necessary bulwark against the power of the federal government in areas in which 80% or more of the available land is owned by BLM; and as a logical total proof that most people do not really give a rat’s *** about theology one way or another.

[sirchtruth]

Name ONE prophecy of Joseph Smith which has come to pass.

Why all the revisions?

[MEGoody]

I must agree with you that for any person on FR to take a statement (or part of one) out of context to try to make it say something that it does not is shameful. We should not be stooping to that level.

I've seen the same thing done with the bible, and it is probably happened with other writings and references.

[greyfoxx39]

Ping-a-ding-ding

[Ransomed]

An actual mormon thread started by a mormon?!! I am shocked...this is FR, right?

Freegards

[American_Centurion]

I don’t see a contextual difference between the full statement and the excerpted one.

Basic point I get from both is that the LDS President is saying that 19th Century Christianity is a perfect tool for the devil. You reintroducing the excerpted text didn’t seem to add anything to that other than some points to support the main idea which was in the excerpt.

[colorcountry]

Many Mormon leaders have made very similar statements about Christianity.

[GLDNGUN]

Thanks for opening this discussion. Now, be prepared to learn a few things.

First off, I don't see any difference in the meaning of what Taylor was saying about Christianity from the parsed quote and the full quote. He is degrading Christianity either way you look at it.

Secondly, this is NOT an isolated quote of Taylor's. We can find other examples of him bashing Christianity:

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth."

-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in "Journal of Discourses," 6:176

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom."

-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in "Journal of Discourses," 10:127

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God."

-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in "Journal of Discourses," 13:225

Why are you disavowing your church's history. Don't you get it? The whole foundation of the LDS Church is that Christianity is the "whore of Babylon".

So, my question for you is this...do you disagree with the Book of Mormon that compares Christianity to the "whore of Babylon"?

Do you disagree with the comments of Taylor?

Simple questions - YES or NO?

[SnakeDoctor]

The paraphrase of that quote is misleading (and shouldn’t have been used in this manner) — but that does not necessarily mean the overall message is wrong.

I would be more hesitant to attribute this cavalier use of ellipsis to all “anti-mormons” (defined, I assume, as anyone stating outright disagreement with mormonism). It was the poor judgment of a single individual — it was not the basis of the entire “anti-mormon” movement.

SnakeDoc

[reaganaut]

The use of the full quote does NOT change the sentiment of the quote.

[ejonesie22]

Oh yeah in context it is MUCH better...

[Godzilla]

Fred, the excerpted portions do not change the intent or content of the enlarged citation -
Who was Taylor talking about - Christianity
What did he say about it -
1) pack of nonsense
2) a tool of the Devil (condensed even further)

Absolutely nothing in your expanded citation even comes close to resembling an encouragement of lds. Perhaps the WHOLE speech, but not this polemic directed against Christians.

[Godzilla]

So far after the first 45 posts, you have failed to show how people you define as “anti mormons” misuse the truth. The excerpted citation shows antagonism against Christianity. The expanded citation shows antagonism against Christianity. Most likely the citation was used to show mormons have been historically antagonist towards Christianity. So where is the falsehood Fred. There are dozens of other citations available from your prophets and apostles over the last 175 years that show the same thing.

What is sad to see you trying to defend this by saying Taylor was encouraging mormons with this passage. It just isn’t there.

[Elsie]

HOW SOME ANTI-MORMONS MIS USE THE TRUTH. (OPEN)

Likewise...

I dislike how MORMONS misuse the Truth of the Bible; but what can I do about it?

(other than post what MORMONism has so wonderfully provided here on the 'net and in other places?)

[dangus]

Perhaps maybe instead of simply citing the fuller context, which appears to have accomplished nothing but further promote the very notion it was meant to disprove, you could restate concept-for-concept in a very one-for-one fashion, the intended meaning of the author?

Did he not mean to call Christianity a tool of the devil? If so, what was it he was calling a tool of the devil?

[Elsie]

I have put “{{}}” around the parts posted to make it easer to see the misuse of this document.

I, however, do NOT have to do ANYTHING other than post Bible Verses to show how the start of MORMONism was DEMONIC:

---

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”  

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

Galatians 1:7-10
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

 Revelation 13:13-15
 13.  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
 14.  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

---

 

If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.

 

If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

---

Genesis 3:1  Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.

                  He said to the woman, "Did God really say, `You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

---

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 

 

 

 

 

[Osage Orange]

Well at first glance....I'd say you are Resty are one in the same.......

But of course...I'm probably wrong.

: )

[Alex Murphy]

I am tired of how some anti-Mormons here at FR, and other places, mis-use the history and teachings of my Church.

Put some salve on it, Fred.

[restornu]

I sorry but what President Taylor said is true just look at how some of these people act just like eggs hatch hell!

But the many who are also in the mainstream but their hearts really follow the Lord, Jesus Chirst or they would be over here bashing the LDS!

We don’t need to defend nor deny truth it will stand on its own merits.

By their fruit ye shall know them!

Matt. 7: 16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The opposition MO is to divide and conqueror.

Man needs to listen to the Lord and search the scriptures this is where truth lies and the Holy Spirit will bear witness to all that is of our Lord.

John 5: 39
39 ¶ Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17: 11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen!