Posted on 03/23/2009 10:27:54 AM PDT by fproy2222
I am tired of how some anti-Mormons here at FR, and other places, mis-use the history and teachings of my Church.
This was posted:::::::::
“”””” President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); “””””
Here is the part of the article not posted for you and as you read it, you will find that it does not say the things about my church that is implued by leaving out large parts of the text.
Please note, the address is to us, the LDS people, from one of the church leaders at the time, telling us that we are not doing what we should and that we must do better.
In no way is President Taylor saying what the original post says he is saying..
Notice how the “…” jump the first part of the post into another sentence and into another thought.
The information is taken out of context and turned into an untruth.
I have put “{{}}” around the parts posted to make it easer to see the misuse of this document.
<><><>
We have first to learn submission to the will of God ourselves, through various trials, persecutions, and the development of our weaknesses and imperfections, and thereby learn to appreciate the goodness and blessings that flow from him. We must see that we ourselves first learn obedience, and then teach others. But how can we teach others a lesson which we have not learned ourselves?
There is not nation now that acknowledges that hand of God; there is not a king, potentate, nor ruler that acknowledges his jurisdiction. We talk about {{ Christianity }}, but it {{ is a perfect pack of nonsense }}. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; {{ and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century. }}
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 6: 167.)
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I think you have that wrong. It’s not anti-Mormon, it’s anti-Mormon theology .....
The Mormon church as I see it serves three (at least) major purposes: It functions as a support group for middle class people trying to raise children; as a very necessary bulwark against the power of the federal government in areas in which 80% or more of the available land is owned by BLM; and as a logical total proof that most people do not really give a rat’s *** about theology one way or another.
Why all the revisions?
I've seen the same thing done with the bible, and it is probably happened with other writings and references.
Do not use potty language - or references to potty language - on the Religion Forum.
Ping-a-ding-ding
If someone believes Mormon theology, that's his individual right.
However, some of the Mormon FReepers insist everyone agree that their religion is Christian. It is no more Christian than Islam, Scientology, or Buddhism.
I understand that to be politically viable at the national level, the Christian spin has to become the mainstream public view of LDS. Not going to happen.
An actual mormon thread started by a mormon?!! I am shocked...this is FR, right?
Freegards
I don’t see a contextual difference between the full statement and the excerpted one.
Basic point I get from both is that the LDS President is saying that 19th Century Christianity is a perfect tool for the devil. You reintroducing the excerpted text didn’t seem to add anything to that other than some points to support the main idea which was in the excerpt.
Many Mormon leaders have made very similar statements about Christianity.
The paraphrase of that quote is misleading (and shouldn’t have been used in this manner) — but that does not necessarily mean the overall message is wrong.
I would be more hesitant to attribute this cavalier use of ellipsis to all “anti-mormons” (defined, I assume, as anyone stating outright disagreement with mormonism). It was the poor judgment of a single individual — it was not the basis of the entire “anti-mormon” movement.
SnakeDoc
thank you
++
There are differences between the LDS Church and the other Christian Churches. That is why I chose to become a Mormon.
I just do not understand why folks who want to teach us, and others, that we are wrong, need to create so much untruth to show the differences.
I would think that since these people call themselves Christians they would be more careful about the “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour” thing.
Are you saying that the author intended “it” to refer to “talk” and not “Christianity”? If so, that’s one doozy of a misstatement on the part of the author. If not, I don’t see where the statement is used improperly.
On the other hand, it’s a little more ambiguous whether “it” refers later to Christianity, or civilization, but then where is the ambiguity to “and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”
Particularly striking is that the author uses no modifier on Christianity in that last sentence. Had he said, “so-called Christianity,” I would be able to charitably read into his statement that he was merely saying that there was a lot of evil going on under the guise of Christianity in the 18th century. But as worded, he seems to plainly be referring to such devil’s work as Christianity itself, not some perversion of it.
The use of the full quote does NOT change the sentiment of the quote.
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