Posted on 02/12/2009 4:05:04 PM PST by wagglebee
WINDSOR, Ontario, February 12, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The President of the Catholic Assumption University of Windsor told LifeSiteNews.com (LSN) in an interview today that the Catholic Church's position on abortion "is not an infallible teaching."
Fr. Paul Rennick, who is also Vice Chancellor of the school, gave the remarks when LSN sought comment regarding the school's decision to invite Cokie Roberts, a pro-abortion Catholic news analyst who has criticized the Church for preaching against homosexuality and contraception, to address the school as part of the "Christian Culture" lecture series.
Fr. Rennick told LSN that he had "personally vetted" the selection of Roberts and chose her because she was "a woman of faith," a "well known Catholic" and "successful as an individual Christian."
LSN asked Fr. Rennick, "Do you think there is a possibility of scandal from the fact that she has professed very pro-abortion views and has criticized Catholic bishops for teaching Church doctrine on homosexuality and contraception?" The President of the Catholic University replied, "No, I don't."
Asked to elaborate, Fr. Rennick said: "If you look at the catholic population, you'll find a whole variety of positions on all of those topics. It seems to me that disagreement on a particular position doesn't disqualify one from being a Catholic. Unless, of course, that position is whether Jesus is the Christ."
"Abortion is not an infallible teaching. It never has been proclaimed infallibly," he said. "This attempt to put everything that the Church teaches in this one set of categories, it seems to me, is not a proper Catholic position, not according to the history of our church," he added.
LSN sought comment about Fr. Rennick's remarks from London Bishop Ronald Fabbro who is Chancellor of Assumption University. Mark Adkinson, Director of Communications for the diocese, told LifeSiteNews.com he would not be able to have the bishop comment. Asked if there would be a better time to contact the bishop, Adkinson replied, "No, because I don't view LifeSite as a legitimate news source."
LSN then sought clarification from the Canadian Catholic Conference of Bishops (CCCB), who referred to the Catholic Organization for Life and Family (COLF). COLF Assistant Director Lea Singh noted that the Catechism reads: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every produced abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable." (CCC 2271).
"As an 'unchangeable' teaching, it does indeed seem to be an infallible teaching," said Singh. "Over the years the CCCB has repeatedly spoken out strongly against abortion." She quoted a 1990 CCCB document which stated: "Catholic teaching on abortion is clear and unequivocal. Abortion is a moral evil because it involves the destruction of human life. Direct killing of an unborn child is never justified."
Cokie Roberts, a political commentator for ABC News and a senior news analyst for National Public Radio, has characterized the federal ban on partial-birth abortion as "off the track" and "cynical game-playing" by pro-life activists, and found the Supreme Court decision to uphold the ban "offensive as a woman."
Roberts also publicly attacked Pope Benedict XVI as "really lacking in the theological virtue of charity," and accused bishops who refuse to open adoption agencies to homosexual couples of "using the remnants of their clout to go after the weak."
The Christian Culture Series has previously invited other public dissidents, including pro-abortion Catholic Prime Ministers Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin Jr., and radical feminist nun Sr. Sandra Schneiders, all of whom were given a Christian Culture medal for being "outstanding exponents of Christian ideals."
Schneiders, who was awarded in 1994, wrote that "every aspect" of the Catholic faith "is not just tainted but perverted by the evil of patriarchy. It is not that the tradition has some problems; the tradition is the problem."
Ms. Roberts' address will be delivered tonight at 8 p.m.
To contact Bishop Fabbro:
Diocese of London Chancery Office
1070 Waterloo Street
London, Ontario N6A 3Y2
Phone: 519-433-0658 ext. 224
Fax: 519-433-0011
To contact Assumption University:
Rev. Paul J. Rennick, C.S.B.
2629 Riverside Drive West
Windsor, Ontario, N9B 1B4
Phone: 519-973-7033
Fax: 519-973-7089
general email: cbertrand@assumptionu.ca
See related LifeSiteNews.com articles:
U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference Says Pro-Abortion Politicians Should be Shunned
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2004/jun/04062102.html
Cabrini College to Honor Pro-Abortion Catholic, Critic of Pope Benedict XVI
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/feb/09020305.html
Thank you, Mrs. Don-o.
Calling good evil and evil, good. Bah. Sorry Father, the church’s opposition to abortion is based in science, logic, and Her grasp of the Natural Law.
Unborn babies are human beings with souls. Killing them intentionally is murder. Could it be any clearer?
Same here.
You wrote:
“No church ever has been nor ever will be the Body of Christ...The Body of Christ is ‘people’, proven time and again by Scripture...”
Yes, the Church is the body of Christ. Ephesians 1:22-23 says so. Now you may disagree as to whether or not that Church is the Catholic Church, but clearly, ACCORDING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND SAINT PAUL, the church is the body of Christ.
It amazes me how often anti-Catholics insist the Bible denies something it affirms.
I guess my ignorance is going to show here, but I am trying to learn more. What is “theistic evolution”?
Thank you!
You wrote:
“I guess my ignorance is going to show here, but I am trying to learn more. What is “theistic evolution”?”
Theistic evolution is the idea that God created man, but did it through an evolutionary process, over time, rather than in a special act of creation.
In other words, theistic evolutionists believe man exists because God wanted him to, but that he came into existence through a series of evolutionary changes that God put into motion.
This view is very popular among liberal Protestants, mainline Protestants, many Catholics, many Jews, etc.
“Thank you!”
I hope I helped.
Here is a good view of two Catholics on opposite sides of the fence on this issue (i.e. theistic evolution vs. traditional creationism).
And here is a similar things from the point of view.
All three men whose ideas are argued over above are Catholics by the way.
What official position does the Church hold on this?
You wrote:
“What official position does the Church hold on this?”
PatriotGirl827, you’re asking for the moon but don’t know it! This is a matter of great debate. This is pretty good as a guide to what is certain: http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp
What the Bible affirms is that the church is a congregation of called out believers, NOT an institution..
The church is those who are IN CHRIST; it is NOT some formal priesthood...
The 'church' is not beautiful buildings adorned with statues, fine art and tapestries..That's a temple, not the church...
The 'church' is not a priesthood with 'religious' people parading in long, fancy robes peforming religious rituals...
The 'church' IS the body of believers who ARE the Body of Christ who gather in buildings across the world, whether it be a store-front, someone's basement, a garage, or in a field or the side of a hill with Jesus and ONLY Jesus as it's HEAD, come together to worship Jesus...
THAT'S the Bible description of the 'church', the body of Christ...
When a Christian realizes that he/she doesn't visit the Body of Christ on religious days, but that he/she IS the Body of Christ, it generates a Spiritual awakening unknown to the person who 'attends' THE church...
And of course it will be foolishness to those religious who are not IN Christ...
You wrote:
“What the Bible affirms is that the church is a congregation of called out believers, NOT an institution..”
Wrong. The Church is shown by the scriptures to most definitely be an institution. There is a definite leadership, for instance.
“The church is those who are IN CHRIST; it is NOT some formal priesthood...”
Straw man. The Church is more than the select (note, “formal” priesthood makes no sense as a term). There is also the priesthood of all believers - the laity. All are called to be IN Christ.
“The ‘church’ is not beautiful buildings adorned with statues, fine art and tapestries..That’s a temple, not the church...”
True. Notice how you are making up more straw man arguments? Who is claiming the Church is a building?
“The ‘church’ is not a priesthood with ‘religious’ people parading in long, fancy robes peforming religious rituals...”
Another straw man. Why not trott out some other silly cliche while you’re at it?
“The ‘church’ IS the body of believers who ARE the Body of Christ who gather in buildings across the world, whether it be a store-front, someone’s basement, a garage, or in a field or the side of a hill with Jesus and ONLY Jesus as it’s HEAD, come together to worship Jesus...”
The Church is the Catholic Church. We too gather in buildings all over the world - including store-fronts, theaters, basements, grottos, catacombs, garages, the open fields, the side of hills and only Jesus is our Head and thank Him, He sent shepherds to pastor us for Him.
“THAT’S the Bible description of the ‘church’, the body of Christ...”
Oh, so now you are admitting that the Church is the body of Christ? Earlier you denied it:
You wrote: “No church ever has been nor ever will be the Body of Christ...”
So, now after I mentioned Ephesians 1:22-23, you’re changing your tune? No surprise there.
“When a Christian realizes that he/she doesn’t visit the Body of Christ on religious days, but that he/she IS the Body of Christ, it generates a Spiritual awakening unknown to the person who ‘attends’ THE church...”
When a Christian realizes that the Body of Christ is the Church as the Bible says it, when he previously denied it, it generates a lot of backtracking, posting of straw men, cliches, and maybe even a sanctimonious dismissal or two.
“And of course it will be foolishness to those religious who are not IN Christ...”
Then why do you persist, since you are not IN Christ?
The Church will ALWAYS be what she once was because she cannot be anything else. People are changed, but the Church, as the body of Christ changes not.
You defined what you think the 'church' is...And you clearly segregated it from the people who 'attend your church'...
When I said no church is the Body of Christ, I was using your definition, not the Biblical one...I thought that would have been obvious...
To get the distinction more clear, the 'church' (small c) is the Biblical church, the believers, not the Church (Capital C) which we all know is your Catholic religion, with all it's trappings...
“And of course it will be foolishness to those religious who are not IN Christ...”
Then why do you persist, since you are not IN Christ?
To those who are in Christ, and Christ in them, I believe I give witness that I am in Christ...A little more crude than some, but in Christ, none the less...
You wrote:
“You defined what you think the ‘church’ is...And you clearly segregated it from the people who ‘attend your church’...”
No. I defined what the Church actually is, not what I think it is. I have no idea what you’re saying here: “And you clearly segregated it from the people who ‘attend your church’...” You’re not making any sense.
“When I said no church is the Body of Christ, I was using your definition, not the Biblical one...I thought that would have been obvious...”
Your statement was false, and you were not using my definition. I stated CLEARLY that the Church is the body of Christ, while YOU denied it. I also posted a verse that showed that the Church is the body of Christ.
“To get the distinction more clear, the ‘church’ (small c) is the Biblical church, the believers, not the Church (Capital C) which we all know is your Catholic religion, with all it’s trappings...”
No. A religion is not a Church, nor a church. Simple grammar defeats you. That’s one of the problems anti-Catholics so often seem to have - the very language shows that their ideas make no sense. In reality the church is the Church and it is Catholic and catholic. It’s just that simple. But no, to claim what you claim you must literally misuse the language. Fitting.
“To those who are in Christ, and Christ in them, I believe I give witness that I am in Christ...”
So you say, and what evidence do I see of it here? You deny Christ’s Church. How can you be IN Christ and deny His body? Logically that is an impossibility.
“A little more crude than some, but in Christ, none the less...”
And yet you are somehow opposed to Christ’s Church? Sorry, your views have no relationship to reality.
The Church doesn’t need an ex-cathedra proclamation. Abortion is murder of a human life. That’s enough.
The earliest part of the Didache was written before 50 A.D.
It was written by Paul and Barnabus, and it led to the historic agreement chronicled in Acts 15.
Well said.
Vladimir:
After “reverting” back to Catholicism 3 years ago, I now realize how liberating it is to know the positions of the Church on any given subject, and to just accept them as the truth. It makes things easier.
That is why I was hoping there was something definitive that would settle it for me. But I see that this particular subject is not so simple.
Thank you for the link. I will definitely read up!
And the mandate not to do abortions is even older than the Catholic Church, since it is in the Hippocratic Oath.
No. I defined what the Church actually is, not what I think it is. I have no idea what you’re saying here: “And you clearly segregated it from the people who ‘attend your church’...” You’re not making any sense.
Well let's try this again then...
The Church will ALWAYS be what she once was because she cannot be anything else. People are changed, but the Church, as the body of Christ changes not.
The people,,, but, the Church...
You have made a distinction BETWEEN the people and the Church...And that's NOT Biblical...And we see that all the time, even here on FR...
I have seen it claimed that the Church is the priesthood...The Church is the pope and magisterium...The Church is the Church fathers...The Church is the catechism...The Church is the long robes and rituals...The Church is a structure adorned with statues, paintings, tapestries, chants, etc...And the head of this Church is the pope and the head of the pope is Christ (and Mary)...In other words, a religion...
And the parishoners are called the 'faithful'...Apparently faithful to the Church...Faithful to the Cathoic Faith...
However, all of this is in contradiction to the words of God...It may have some things in common with the Jewish religion with the temples and rituals but has nothing in common with the 'church' of the New Testament...
The 'church', the Body of Christ is the body of called out believers...Numerous scriptures have been posted in the past to prove this...
Your Church is NOT the church that Jesus called out to be separate from the world and be saved...
Your Church is a religion that worships the same God as the Muzlims (admitted by your magisterium as well as many Catholics on FR)...Your God is in a wafer, the muzlims have the same God in a black rock over in the desert...
The Body of Christ is those who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, 24/7 (not just for 20 minutes when they eat the wafer) and who are as well, IN CHRIST...
A pope or priest, or pastor or minister or a religion is no more representative or no more a member of the Body of Christ and His church than a homeless believing man, with ragged clothes that reeks of stale wine sitting in the last pew of a church...
I am the Body of Christ, the church...If you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, you are the Body of Christ...And if your pope is filled with the Holy Spirit of God, he is the Body of Christ...A religion (your Church is NOT the Body of Christ...
You wrote:
“You have made a distinction BETWEEN the people and the Church...And that’s NOT Biblical...And we see that all the time, even here on FR...”
Incorrect. I now see why you were so mistaken previously. Your lack of understanding regarding reality and ecclesiology naturally leads you to erroneouos conclusions.
People change. Do you deny this? Only a fool would. People can become sinful for instance, more sinful than they were. They can lose their faith. You rejected this reality in a previous thread, but it is undeniable. Thus, people change, but the Church doesn’t. People sin, but the Church doesn’t. That’s why the Bible - the book you claim to base your view of the Church on - says the Church is a spotless bride - yet it is filled with sinners. Rev 22:17, Eph 1:4, 5:27.
“I have seen it claimed that the Church is the priesthood...”
By whom? Not the Church. Listen, rather than post cliches and misinformation why not deal with reality?
“The Church is the pope and magisterium...The Church is the Church fathers...The Church is the catechism...The Church is the long robes and rituals...The Church is a structure adorned with statues, paintings, tapestries, chants, etc...And the head of this Church is the pope and the head of the pope is Christ (and Mary)...In other words, a religion...”
You can try all you want to explain away the error you posted, but it is all yours. No one claims - ANYWHERE - that the Church is building, or paintings, or tapestries. Why do you post such obvious nonsense that no one believes?
“Your Church is NOT the church that Jesus called out to be separate from the world and be saved...”
Yeah, actually it is. The fact that you have to post things so manifestly incorrect as the idea that people (who?) supposedly believe tapestries are the Church just seems to prove the Church is a lot more worthwhile to listen to than you.
“Your Church is a religion that worships the same God as the Muzlims (admitted by your magisterium as well as many Catholics on FR)...Your God is in a wafer, the muzlims have the same God in a black rock over in the desert...”
Oh, here we with the typical anti-Catholic throwing in of the kitchen sink of distortions and misrepresentations! When an anti-Catholic loses a debate BIG TIME this is often how it goes. Can’t win, so they throw anything they can hoping the conversation will change topic to hide the fact they’ve lost.
The rest of your post is the usual defeatist posturing and ranting I’ve come to expect when anti-Catholics go down in flames.
If what John Paul II said about abortion wasn’t ex cathedra, then there are at most only two ex cathedra statements which have ever been uttered. He specifically mentioned the desire to establish Catholic doctrine, and noted that he had discerned a unanimity among Catholic bishops in the present day and among the Catholic faithful throughout history.
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