Posted on 12/21/2008 5:22:47 PM PST by ROTB
Edited on 12/21/2008 9:23:40 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Wrong answer. Moshiach is NOT Hashem. Jews are right to flee this insidious addendum/doctrine.
I don’t think that Christians should be trying to convert people who don’t want to be Christians anymore than non-Christians should be trying to proseltyze Christians.
There are enough agonistics and fallen away Christians that Christians can target.
A better idea would be trying to convert Muslims - TO ANYTHING ELSE!!!
As Mama says, "You tell me, and we'll both know."
Unless of course you aren't referring to liberal Jews but to Orthodox Jews and you're saying they don't follow Torah because they don't offer sacrifices in Jerusalem (which they can't until all the criteria are met; to do so in the absence of those criteria would be to violate Torah, not follow it. And this is the real Messiah's job: to put things back so all Torah may once again be observed (ie, rebuild the Temple, etc.).
And unless you're implying that since the sacrifices cannot be carried out at this time that the Torah as "expired" (G-d forbid!). First, the Torah itself predicts exile (during which sacrifices cannot be brought)--never as a punishment for "rejecting the messiah," but always and only for straying from the Torah itself. And second, if the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of the offerings signaled the arrival of Mashiach, then he came in Jeremiah's time, because the Temple was destroyed then long before the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans (seventy years with no sacrifices).
And those serving in the temple will be of the family of Aaron and Levi?
And would violate The Torah to observe the Shabboth Law?
I bet you aren’t Jewish.
too late for me. I’m Jewish and when I told my (very close) Jewish relatives I was thinking about becoming a Christian they disowned me.
The actual name of the Creator was known and used by the Levitical priesthood for thousands of years but then was hid from the common people so that it would not be profaned.
What we know from preserved ancient writings is that His name is represented by the tetragamatron YHVH YudHeyVuvHey.
Most scholars agree that Yahweh would be the pronunciation of YHVH.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
PM’d you: “You’ve Got Mail”
Beautiful post!
From the promised seed of the woman who would crush the head of the deceiver (the serpent) in Genesis 3:15, mankind was looking for the Saviour. Eve, remembering God's promise, named her first son, Cain, saying, 'I have gotten a man [with] God'... Obviously Eve was wrong about Cain -- but she knew there was going to be a seed of the woman (although possibly not her) that would defeat the curse brought by the deceiver'.
And mankind has looked for this promise.
In Genesis 22 we have the near reenactment of Calvary. In the land of Moriah (in the region of Jerusalem, and Calvary) Abraham faithfully obeyed God and brought his only begotten son to be sacrificed onto God. Isaac bore the wood on his back, and he and his father, went together to the place of sacrifice and Isaac obediently awaited his father to plunge the dagger into him (Flash forward 2000+ years: Phil 2:8c "...and He became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross...") - But God stopped Abraham and pointed him to the substitute - the ram trapped in the thicket... But God The Father would not spare HIS only begotten Son. For our sake, unworthy worms that we are, God The Father would sacrifice His only Son to be our substitute...
And Moses, esteeming the reproach of Christ to be of greater riches than the treasures in Egypt (for he had respect for the recompense of the reward), speaks in Deuteronomy of the Prophet who would be of the seed of Israel who would speak the words of God...
And although you can see Christ in almost every chapter of Scripture, Psalms 2, 22, and 110 are favorites that point at the Christ - and the suffering and Risen Saviour.
And how do we answer the riddle in Proverbs 30?
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
There is no other answer: Jehovah - Jesus. Or as Jesus answers this riddle (and as a bonus, HE also throws in the answer of the meaning of brazen serpent which Moses held up to save the Hebrews in the wilderness) in the Gospel of John:
John 3:13-15 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
And the Book of Isaiah. Jeremiah and the Righteous Branch. Micah 5:2. Zechariah. And so on.
Mankind has been redeemed by the friend of sinners - Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
Come and Believe.
Your endeavor is to praised - our prayers for you.
If you believe God is Jesus come in the flesh, how could you not witness to them???
If the Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, hou could you not tell them???
If they will burn in hell for eternity because you did not tell them, how could you not tell them???
I’m not Jewish, but here is a note about one of my beliefs.
1. Belief in the Supreme Being and the prohibition against worshipping any other beings.
* I will *not* have anything to do with any representation or hint of human blood sacrifice for “salvation” and will *not* consume any human blood, even by pretending to do so with any symbolic gesture. For me to do so would be to indulge in one of the most horrible and forbidden of idolatrous practices (in my belief). There’s only One G-d (absolute in Unity with no parallels or associations) who can save me.
1. Belief in the Supreme Being and the prohibition against worshipping any other beings.
* I will *not* be seduced by metaphors as arguments that are contradictory to the Laws of HaShem (that is, no “types,” “shadows” or mentions of any other deity—not even another deity by association). I cannot imagine converting back to the religion of my youth.
I believe in the Thirteen Principles of Faith of the Rambam.
Here’s a link that might be of interest.
The Making of Chassidim
A Letter Written by the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe,
Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/making-chassidim/02.htm
There’s also a link of interest only for Jewish people who are considering conversion to any religion other than Judaism. Freepmail me, if you want that link.
Perhaps the central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus is the Torah. He is the Word of God made flesh. He is very literally a walking, talking Torah. He is for us Christians a Torah with ears, so to speak.
The universe was created so Israel could observe the Torah (it is not a temporary "schoolmaster" to prepare the way for the Messiah).
That certainly isn't a Christian belief. I'll reluctantly take your word for it that it is a tenet of Judaism, but Christianity rejects such fundamentally racist ideas. We believe that God created the universe to show forth His goodness and to share His joy with us - i.e. with all human beings - . From the forever in Heaven. From the Baltimore Catechism:
God made us to show forth His goodness and to share with us His everlasting happiness in heaven.
You also say:
The idea that the first advent was to pay the sin debt and the second to initiate a literal kingdom is a recent syncretistic departure.
You obviously know little of Christianity. The idea that Christ died as ransom for our sins is from the very beginning. It is the center of the Gospel.
He has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have our redemption, the remission of our sins. (Colossians 1:13-14)
You seem like a decent enough fellow. I would suggest that you keep quiet about things you clearly know nothing about. I won't tell you about Judaism, or whatever your religion is. I would appreciate it if you would stop telling me about my religion in turn.
1) Check your LXX.
2) Visit www.messianicart.com/chazak/Handbook.pdf, where the case is made that the tetragammaton has been erased from the received hebrew Tanach at least 134 times, mostly in places where the deity of the messiah, or a trinity could be inferred.
>There’s only One G-d (absolute in Unity with no parallels
>or associations) who can save me.
Even Maimonides acknowledged that ECHOD leaves the door wide open for a Trinity, so he concluded that Moses despite having eyes that were “not dim” in old age, and having a “natural force” that was “unabated” in old age, and spoke to HaShem “face to face” wrongfully picked ECHOD instead of YACHID.
Respectfully, I don’t believe that.
>(that is, no “types,” “shadows”
You know of PaRDeS?
1) Pashat/Literal primary meaning
2) Remez/Hints in the text of something
deeper
3) Drash/The added understanding that can only be gleaned by a story, riddle, or parable and the
deepest level
4) Sod/Secrets and mysteries, which are mysterious underlying secrets revealed in the text,
which can and often do require many hours, weeks, months and in some cases even years to receive,
through the diligent study and meditation in YHWH’s Word.
All of the above are taken from http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/Handbook.pdf.
Have a great day!
Actually, you’re right and wrong at the same time. The creator’s name isn’t “Jehovah” because Jehovah’s an English, not a Hebrew name. Much like how Jesus’ name isn’t “Jesus” but rather, “Yeshuah”. Jehovah’s the English version of the name “Yahweh/Yahveh/Yahhuveah”
Most of this “Jehovah isn’t G_d’s name” B.S. is made up by evangelical Anti-Jehovah’s Witness preachers who would rather attack known biblical facts rather than the JW’s totalitarian and un-Christian tactics.
I'm a Noachide.
Yep.
And would violate The Torah to observe the Shabboth Law?
Non-sequitur. It is not a violation of Torah to observe Shabbat or a violation of Shabbat to observe Torah.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.