Posted on 09/20/2008 3:31:26 PM PDT by narses
1. Who made us? God made us.
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. (Genesis 1:1)
2. Who is God? God is the Supreme Being, infinitely perfect, who made all things and keeps them in existence.
In him we live and move and have our being. (Acts 17:28)
3. Why did God make us? God made us to show forth His goodness and to share with us His everlasting happiness in heaven.
Eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man, what things God has prepared for those who love him. (I Corinthians 2:9)
4. What must we do to gain the happiness of heaven? To gain the happiness of heaven we must know, love, and serve God in this world.
Lay not up to yourselves treasures on earth; where the rust and moth consume and where thieves break through and steal. But lay up to yourselves treasures in heaven; where neither the rust nor moth doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. (Matthew 6:19-20)
5. From whom do we learn to know, love, and serve God? We learn to know, love, and serve God from Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who teaches us through the Catholic Church.
I have come a light into the world that whoever believes in Me may not remain in darkness. (John 12:46)
6. Where do we find the chief truths taught by Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church? We find the chief truths taught by Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church in the Apostles' Creed.
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. (Luke 10:16)
7. Say the Apostles' Creed. I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
Looks ok to me.
Ps. 145:7 is kinda hard to explain in that light.
“Looks ok to me.”
I have no doubt that it is. My only purpose in commenting was to demonstrate that the methods of those long gone Sisters of Mercy were effective at least in making us remember the catechism if not to take it fully to heart.
You and I don't.
My only purpose in commenting was to demonstrate that the methods of those long gone Sisters of Mercy were effective at least in making us remember the catechism if not to take it fully to heart.
Love the delicious irony.
I see nothing in Psa 145:7 that contradict anything. This does not say the purpose of man is so that God can pour forth His goodness. God was already good.
I’m not surprise.
Wrong, my friend. God is glorified by all of creation, not just believers.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Ps 19:1
And how about this?
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Mat 5:14-16
Our response to God's gifts ALSO glorifies God, since it is God Himself who "lights the candles" within this "dark world".
Now, pray tell. Why does God offer salvation to mankind IF not to share with us His goodness and eternal happiness in heaven - which is why we were created?
So he can pull the rug out from under us when we realize how woefully short we fall from perfection???
Regards
You are arguing my point; man along with everything else in this universe was created for God's glory, not so that God could share His goodness with us as is stated in the catechism. We share in His goodness because of His grace and love-not because we were created for that purpose.
Now, pray tell. Why does God offer salvation to mankind IF not to share with us His goodness and eternal happiness in heaven - which is why we were created?
See, there you have changed. Let's approach this in another way. Do those who are cast into hell reflect the glory of God? Is God good to sentence people to an eternal death in a lake of fire to be tormented throughout eternity? I would hope you would answer yes because that is the situation of unbelievers and the very nature of God. God is good and just. Casting the rebellious into eternal torment is a good and just punishment.
This seems like such a preposterous claim simply because we cannot understand how far we have fallen in our depravity to a beautiful and perfect God. But someday, EVERY knee will bow and many of those same people who bow before the throne will justly suffer the fires of hell and it will reflect the goodness and justness of God.
So he can pull the rug out from under us when we realize how woefully short we fall from perfection???
The rug is already pulled out. Our sentence has been established. We are saved from our sentence once He reveals Himself to us and we come to Him. The Father gives us to the Son and the Son keeps us.
LOL! Hardly. That's not what the Psalm says. You are denying what you said AND adding your own words so that you can make your point. Please consider reading Psalm 19:1 again.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows the work of his hands.
Where is the believer mentioned here??? You specifically said that only the believer glorifies God! Now, the Scriptures disagree - unless you think the stars and moon believe in God...
In addition, where does it say that the universe was created so that God could brag to His creation?
I certainly am not arguing your point...
Do those who are cast into hell reflect the glory of God?
I would say "no", it reflects His divine justice.
Is God good to sentence people to an eternal death in a lake of fire to be tormented throughout eternity?
God's judgments are just, which is considered "good". "Good" being just and righteous, a philosophical good. I am afraid I don't see where I have "changed", though. What does this have to do with God creating us to share in His eternal goodness?
This seems like such a preposterous claim simply because we cannot understand how far we have fallen in our depravity to a beautiful and perfect God.
Nor can we understand the wonderful gift God has given us fallen men. You are free to focus on either aspect, God's gift or your (or my) depravity.
But someday, EVERY knee will bow and many of those same people who bow before the throne will justly suffer the fires of hell and it will reflect the goodness and justness of God.
??? Where does Scriptures say those in hell will bow to God? The Scriptures are very clear that God DOES NOT ACCEPT such "offerings"... You are suggesting some sort of "play-acting"? Over and over, the OT tells us that God refuses the wicked and the evil and their "worship". God only accepts a heart of conversion. Please. Can we try to not re-invent Christianity with such musings? What sort of God do you have in mind that MUST have the evil "bow" to Him? Why would that be necessary at all? Is God so petty, in your eyes? Judgment will be provided, and the evil will be cast into the pit. The evil are not going to bow, nor will God accept such "bowing". That's stuff for human pride, not God!!!
The rug is already pulled out. Our sentence has been established. We are saved from our sentence once He reveals Himself to us and we come to Him. The Father gives us to the Son and the Son keeps us.
Cliches will get you nowhere. "The sentence has been established?" We DESERVE hell, but no sentence has been established - for God's sentences are unchangeable. Your idea of God is one who made us so He could "gloat" and "lord it over us" to prove how evil we were??? Do you get the idea that God made Adam to "pull the rug out from under him" too?
I am not even going to address your predestination errors here. They are off topic.
No, my friend, God made you to share in His life...
whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these ye might be made participants of the divine nature, having fled the corruption that is in the world through lust 2 Peter 1:4
That's love, my friend. A sharing of self. We are made to be divinized, if we only desire it.
Regards
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We all have gone astray. Sorry if these sound like cliches. I got them out of an old book.
I stand corrected. When I first read that, that is what I thought you were saying.
The Catechism states that "Why did God make us? God made us to show forth His goodness and to share with us...". I'm saying this is nonsense. God showed forth His goodness BEFORE we were ever around. Weren't the angels aware of the goodness of God?
WE TOO do not say that "only humans glorify God" or "God did not show His glory until He created man"... Of course God showed His glory before He created man. I suppose we both have problems with "only"!
Do you think that those in hell will recognize and acknowledge the goodness of God?
Sure they will - and hate Him for it. They will prefer to be apart from God, which is why they are there. That doesn't mean they will bow and worship God - which the Scriptures note God will not accept, even if they did.
The more one understand our depravity the more they understand God's grace. Our depravity should be our only focus.
I chose(!) to understand God's grace as my primary focus. I am quite aware of my shortcomings, but I don't need to focus on them and build up a complex before I recognize the gift of God's grace. Christianity maintains a high view of mankind, being the pinnacle of material creation.
Didn't I quote scripture that every knee will bow? I take that to be quite literal. That doesn't mean God accepts them, simply that they will acknowledge that Jesus is Lord.
The verse in question does not say "every knee in hell will bend". It states locations of places where the knee will bend - in heaven, on earth and under the earth. This refers to the Church - those in heaven, on the earth, and "under the earth" refering to Purgatory. Those in hell will not "bow" to Christ. The wicked are wicked BECAUSE they WILL NOT recognize Jesus as Lord! The context is not speaking of every person on earth, but those in time who see Jesus as the Christ - even those who have died.
keep forgetting that Catholics no longer believe that we are tainted with original sin. Shame on me.
Individual Catholics or the Catholic Church? Who can say what the individual "Catholic" believes these days with Bidden and Pelosi running around? But I assure you that the Church continues to teach the TAINT of original sin - which has NEVER been the "total depravity" of the reformers.
You forget, God doesn't HAVE to "pull the rug" from out of anyone. We are quite capable of doing that ourselves.
Of course. It would be well to remember that YOU can do that and that one is not "saved for heaven" before they enter the Kingdom. We have free will. With that said, it appears that your view of free will and the sovereignty of God would, in the end, have GOD pulling the rug out from me, whether I want to or not - not me doing it to myself.
That's what predestination is all about.
As I said, I am not about to debate on such a wide array of subjects. Our ideas of predestination are not the same. Predestination is to the Church, the community, not to heaven. That's all I'll say on that. It is enough to state that Catholics are neither Calvinist or Arminian on such subjects.
Regards
Well said, thank you.
They need it, for sure.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
Amen.
Amen!
Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.
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