What about all those churches? When and by whom was your church founded? (Ecumenical)

Catholic Treasure Chest ^ | Bob Stanley

[NYer]

All Apostles, all having the same One Truth of the Holy Spirit, with all going out into the whole world to convert Jew and Gentile alike into One Church.

Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 21 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:

"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).

Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.

To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15).

A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his of her obligations at any Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole.

[NYer]

The very first Church gatherings were not in churches (buildings) at all but in the homes of loyal Christians. These gatherings were done in great secrecy in order to avoid persecution.

And this is still true today in those parts of the world where Catholics continue to be persecuted for their faith - China and the Middle East, to name only a few.

[driftdiver]

Sorry, not buying it. The Church isn’t a building. Its the body of people that worship and accept Jesus as their savior.

If you accept Jesus then you are in the Church. The denomination is a label applied by people.

[driftdiver]

“And this is still true today in those parts of the world where Catholics continue to be persecuted for their faith”

Are they being persecuted for being Christian or for being Catholic?

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Sorry, not buying it. The Church isn’t a building.”

Who said it was? Seriously, who ever said THE CHURCH was a building?

“Its the body of people that worship and accept Jesus as their savior.”

Sorry, but you’ve fallen for that invisible church nonsense invented by 16th century Protestants.

“If you accept Jesus then you are in the Church. The denomination is a label applied by people.”

Jesus founded the Church - not men. I’m not in a denomination.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Are they being persecuted for being Christian or for being Catholic?”

In Muslims countries they’re persecuted for being Christians. In the other places they’re usually persecuted for being specifically Catholic.

[NYer]

If you accept Jesus then you are in the Church.

Is the Church to be a loose conglomerate of believers or is it to be organized and structured?  Scripture clearly established "offices" and a "hierarchy" among Christians.  The offices of "bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon" are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ).  What else is this but "organization?"  Or should we believe that any believer can "claim" to be a bishop, priest, deacon or even "apostle?"  The word "office" is specifically used in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1) to describe these positions.  Webster defines "office" as "A special duty, trust, charge, or position, conferred by authority or God and for a public purpose; a position of trust or authority."  And the office of "apostle" is to be continued (Acts 1:20-26) to the present day.  Not all believers are "equal" nor have the same gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10; Ephesians 4:11).   Is the Church a "visible, earthly" entity?  Yes, for Christ would not direct us to the Church for disputes if it were not here on Earth (Matthew 18:17).   Nor would "fear" encompass the whole Church if it were a mystical, invisible and heavenly entity (Acts 5:11).  The Church is definitely here on earth for the actions described in Acts definitely take place on earth and the term used is "the whole Church" (Acts 15:22). cf

[NYer]

Are they being persecuted for being Christian or for being Catholic?

In the majority of these countries, Catholicism is still the only christian faith practiced. In China, they are being persecuted for not succumbing to the "official" (government organized) Catholic Church.

[sasportas]

The church we see in the book of Acts and in the epistles, the original first century church, was not the RCC. The RCC represents apostate Christianity, not original Christianity.

[NYer]

The church we see in the book of Acts and in the epistles, the original first century church, was not the RCC. The RCC represents apostate Christianity, not original Christianity.

Really? So you are calling Jesus a liar? Matt 16:18

[vladimir998]

Since Protestantism came 1500 years after Christ IT must be apostate Christianity. Christ established a Church. If your came 1500 or 1900 years later, then you know it isn’t legitimate.

[driftdiver]

This is nonsense. Muslims are out to kill every non-muslim in the world and you folks are trying to stir up problems within Christianity.

Catholics have been persecuted in history. Catholics have also been the persecutors of others.

What places are targeting Catholics for being catholic?

[driftdiver]

“Who said it was? Seriously, who ever said THE CHURCH was a building?”

You said it was the Catholic church. The church isn’t a label.

“Sorry, but you’ve fallen for that invisible church nonsense invented by 16th century Protestants.”

No, I’m quite visible as are those I worship with. We worship in a building thats also visible.

“Jesus founded the Church - not men. I’m not in a denomination.”

Men apply their labels in an effort to make themselves believe they are better then others.

[driftdiver]

“The church we see in the book of Acts and in the epistles, the original first century church, was not the RCC”
The hateful way this issue is being raised makes me think it is not of a Godly person.

[driftdiver]

“In China, they are being persecuted for not succumbing to the “official” (government organized) Catholic Church.”

You are misrepresenting the issue on purpose. They are being persecuted for being Christian. That they are Catholic (if they are) is a side issue. I know of many Christians who have been persecuted and had nothing to do with Catholicism.

[driftdiver]

“The offices of “bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon” are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ). “

Yes they are. Where’s the Pope? Where’s the bible indicate you must go thru a priest to be forgiven? Wheres the bible say good works get you to heaven?

“What else is this but “organization?” “

Sure its an organization.

“Is the Church a “visible, earthly” entity? “

Sure it is, the church is where two or more believers come together to worship. It does not require gold, silver, fine architecture, or other trappings of many modern buildings.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“This is nonsense. Muslims are out to kill every non-muslim in the world and you folks are trying to stir up problems within Christianity.”

1) The problems already exist and have existed for almost 500 years. Pretending they don’t exist won’t make them go away.

“Catholics have been persecuted in history. Catholics have also been the persecutors of others.”

Yeah, and?

“What places are targeting Catholics for being catholic?”

China, Russia, historically in America, etc.

[bert]

Cstho;ics have murdered tens of thousands in the name of God. They have very bloody hands.

[driftdiver]

“1) The problems already exist and have existed for almost 500 years. Pretending they don’t exist won’t make them go away.”

The problems with Muslims have existed for about 1000 years. perhaps if you weren’t adding divisiveness to the issue it would be resolved.

“China, Russia, historically in America, etc.”

Wow talk about a victim mentality. Nobody cares about Catholics until you start this “we’re better than you are” garbage.