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To: NYer

“The offices of “bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon” are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ). “

Yes they are. Where’s the Pope? Where’s the bible indicate you must go thru a priest to be forgiven? Wheres the bible say good works get you to heaven?

“What else is this but “organization?” “

Sure its an organization.

“Is the Church a “visible, earthly” entity? “

Sure it is, the church is where two or more believers come together to worship. It does not require gold, silver, fine architecture, or other trappings of many modern buildings.


17 posted on 08/23/2008 4:35:23 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: driftdiver; vladimir998
Yes they are. Where’s the Pope? Where’s the bible indicate you must go thru a priest to be forgiven? Wheres the bible say good works get you to heaven?

Where's the Pope? - Throughout the Acts of the Apostles, St. Peter is clearly the leader of the Christian community (Acts 1:15, 5:1-10).  And again, he is listed first among the Apostles in the New Testament (Matthew 10:2; Mark 3:16-19; Luke 6:13-14).  Before St. Peter was crucified, he appointed St. Linus as his successor. Why should this practice not be carried on to the present day? There is an unbroken line of Popes from St. Peter down to the present-day Pope. The Papacy is the oldest institution in the Western World. How could it have survived 2000 years without the grace of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit? The Primacy of Peter

Where’s the bible indicate you must go thru a priest to be forgiven? - John 20:22-23

Wheres the bible say good works get you to heaven? - James 2:14-26, Romans 2:6; 2 Corinthians 11:15; Matthew 25:31-46, Revelations, Revelations 22:12 - and others but the full clarification of the Catholic teaching on this topic is in the Catechism:

What the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on "Good Works:"

1821. "We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. [Cf. Rom 8:28-30 ; Mt 7:21 .] In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere 'to the end' [Mt 10:22 ; cf. Council of Trent DS 1541.] and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for 'all men to be saved.'[1 Tim 2:4 .] She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:  Hope, O my soul, hope. You know neither the day nor the hour. Watch carefully, for everything passes quickly, even though your impatience makes doubtful what is certain, and turns a very short time into a long one. Dream that the more you struggle, the more you prove the love that you bear your God, and the more you will rejoice one day with your Beloved, in a happiness and rapture that can never end. [St. Teresa of Avila, Excl. 15:3.]"

2008. "The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit."

2009. "Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us 'co-heirs' with Christ and worthy of obtaining 'the promised inheritance of eternal life.' [Council of Trent (1547): DS 1546.] The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness. [Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1548.] 'Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due.... Our merits are God's gifts.' [St. Augustine, Sermon 298, 4-5: PL 38, 1367.]"

Where in Scripture is Sola Scriptura found?

35 posted on 08/23/2008 5:12:55 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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