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What about all those churches? When and by whom was your church founded? (Ecumenical)
Catholic Treasure Chest ^ | Bob Stanley

Posted on 08/23/2008 3:36:23 PM PDT by NYer

The denial of the One True Church:
"John to the seven Churches that are in Asia..."
Rev 1:4

"Anyone can see from the very beginning of Christianity that there were many denominations, for the Bible is 'very clear' to show us this in that verse, and in many others!"
This is what I have been told by those who refuse to believe that the Catholic Church is the one true Church which Jesus Christ founded. It is too bad that non-Catholics cannot understand the fact that all of those Churches were founded by the Apostles who were all infused with the same Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Therefore they all taught the same truth of Jesus Christ. There are no two Protestant churches which teach the same thing. If they all taught the same one truth, then isn't it obvious that instead of the tens of thousands of sects, there would be only one?

Well, let us see what the story of the Bible really says...


"You are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church."
Matt 16:18

"
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations...."
Matt 28:20

It was prophesied by Caiphas, the high priest, that Jesus would gather all of His Children into
ONE:
"This, however, he said not of himself; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation; and not only for the nation, but that He might gather into
ONE the Children of GOD who were scattered abroad."
John 11:51-52
The beginning of the fulfillment of this prophecy is in the book of Acts.

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved
the Church, and delivered Himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, cleansing her in the bath of water by means of The Word; in order that He might present Himself the Church in all her glory, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she might be holy and without blemish."
Eph 5:25-27
Note in these verses that St. Paul referenced "
the Church" twice and in the singular. He spoke of one Church only.

"But, you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be witnesses for Me in Jerusalem (local) and in all Judea and Samaria (spreading out) and even to the very ends of the earth (world-wide, Universal, Catholic)."
Acts 1:8

"And there appeared to them parted tongues as of fire, which settled upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in foreign tongues, even as the Holy Spirit prompted them to speak."
Acts 2:3-4

Elucidation:
*Jesus Christ commissioned His Apostles to go into the whole world and preach the Gospel.
*The Holy Spirit infused each and all of the Apostles with the same
One Truth of the Word.
*Jesus Christ spoke of
One Church only and not of seven as in Rev 1:4.
The Catholic Church, the only Church which Jesus Christ founded, was persecuted by both the Jews and the Romans from the very beginning. The Jews wanted to stamp out this new Christianity because Christ called Himself GOD. The Romans wanted to destroy this new Christianity because Christ called Himself a King. The infant Church had to practice in hiding or fade into oblivion. But fade it would not because its founder was GOD Himself who promised the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. Matt 16:18
The very first Church gatherings were not in churches (buildings) at all but in the homes of loyal Christians. These gatherings were done in great secrecy in order to avoid persecution. Any physical church building would have been immediately destroyed by the Jews or the Romans. The faithful had to use code words to communicate, such as Babylon for Rome, and the fish symbol. The word 'fish' is Icthus in Greek, the dominant language of the time. Icthus is the first letters of 'Jesus Christ Son of GOD Savior'. Fish are used as a symbol of the faithful, referring to the miraculous catch (Luke 5:1-7), and that some of the Apostles were fishermen.
"And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread in their houses..."
Acts 2:46

"Greet Prisca and Aquila, my helpers in Christ Jesus, who for my life have risked their own necks. To them not only I give thanks but also the Churches of the Gentiles. Greet also the Church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Ephaenetus, who is the first fruits of Asia to Christ."
Romans 16:3-5.

"The Churches of Asia greet you. Aquila and Priscilla with the Church at their house (Corinth) greet you heartily in the Lord."
1Cor 16:19

"Greetings to the brethren who are at Laodicea and to Nymphas and the Church that is in his house."
Col 4:15-16

"And to Appia, the sister, and to Archippus, our fellow soldier, and to the Church that is in thy house:"
Philemon 1:2

Notice in Romans and Corinthians above, that the Church had already spread to Asia.


The new Church expanded rapidly. This rapid expansion was due in part to the fact that the Romans had built excellent roads connecting the various cities. The Apostles used these roads to advantage.

"Now they who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls." Acts 2:41

"And the multitude of men and women who believed in the Lord increased still more..."
Acts 5:14

"Now in those days, as the number of the disciples was increasing..."
Acts 6:1

"So the Churches grew stronger and stronger in the faith and increased in numbers daily."
Acts 16:5

"And the Word of the Lord continued to spread, and the number of the disciples increased rapidly in Jerusalem; a large number also of the priests accepted the faith."
Acts 6:7

"Now throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria the Church was in peace and was being built up, walking in fear of the Lord, and it was filled with the consolation of the Holy Spirit."
Acts 9:31

"And news concerning them came to the ears of the Church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas as far as Antioch.
Acts 11:22

"But the Word of the Lord continued to grow and spread."
Acts 12:24

Starting in Acts 13:1, the worldwide, universal, Catholic Church began to expand to eventually include all of humanity...

"Now in the Church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers, among whom were Barnabas and Simon, called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manahen the fostering brother of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul."
Acts 13:1

"On arriving at Jerusalem they were welcomed by the Church and the Apostles and Presbyters (priests), and they proclaimed all that GOD had done with them."
Acts 15:4

"Then the Apostles and the Presbyters (priests) with the whole Church decided to select representatives and to send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas.
Acts 15:22

"But I commend to you Phoebe, our sister, who is in the ministry of the Church at Cenchrea..." Rom 16:1

"..to the Church of GOD at Corinth."
1Cor 1:2, 2Cor 1:1

"Paul and Sylvanus and Timothy to the Church of the Thessalonians."
1Thess 1:1, 2Thess 1:1

"The Church which is at Babylon (Rome), chosen together with you, greets you, and so does my son Mark."
1Pet 5:13

"To the angel (Bishop) of the Church at Ephesus write..."
Rev 2:1

"And to the angel of the Church at Smyrna write..."
Rev 2:8

"And to the angel of the Church at Pergamum write..."
Rev 2:12

"And to the angel of the Church at Thyratira write..."
Rev 2:18

"And to the angel of the Church at Sardis write..."
Rev 3:1

"And to the angel of the Church at Philadelphia write..."
Rev 3:7

"And to the angel of the Church at Laodicea write..."
Rev 3:14

Cyprus, Acts 13:4
Iconium, Acts 14:1
Lystra, Acts 14:7
Derbe, Acts 14:19-20
Philippi, Acts 16:12
Thessalonica, Acts 17:1-2
Berea, Acts 17:10
Athens, Acts 17:16
Corinth, Acts 18:1-2
Ephesus, Acts 18:19
Tyre, Acts 21:3-6
Malta, Acts 28:1-10
Rome, Acts 28:16-30

Implied...
Pamphylia, Acts 14:23
Perge, Acts 14:24
Attalia, Acts 14:24
Phoenicia, Acts 15:3
Caesarea, Acts 18:22

"For from you the Word of the Lord has been spread Abroad, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but in Every Place Your Faith In GOD Has Gone Forth, so that we need say nothing further." 1Thess 1:8

"Amen I say to you, wherever in the Whole World this Gospel is preached, this also that she has done shall be told in memory of her."
Matt 26:13

"But I say; Have they not heard? Yes, indeed, Their voice has gone forth into All the Earth, and their words Unto the ends of the World."
Rom 10:18

"And this Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the Whole World, for a witness to All Nations; and then will come the end."
Matt 24:14

"Go, therefore and make disciples of All Nations..."
Matt 28:19

And He said to them, "Go into the Whole World and preach the Gospel to every creature."
Mark 16:15

"But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the preaching by the signs that followed."
Mark 16:20


All Apostles, all having the same One Truth of the Holy Spirit, with all going out into the whole world to convert Jew and Gentile alike into One Church.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: christian; evangelical; nondenominational; protestant
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1 posted on 08/23/2008 3:36:24 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
All Apostles, all having the same One Truth of the Holy Spirit, with all going out into the whole world to convert Jew and Gentile alike into One Church.

Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 21 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:

"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).

Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.

To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15).

A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his of her obligations at any Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole.

2 posted on 08/23/2008 3:40:07 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: All
The very first Church gatherings were not in churches (buildings) at all but in the homes of loyal Christians. These gatherings were done in great secrecy in order to avoid persecution.

And this is still true today in those parts of the world where Catholics continue to be persecuted for their faith - China and the Middle East, to name only a few.

3 posted on 08/23/2008 3:42:56 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

Sorry, not buying it. The Church isn’t a building. Its the body of people that worship and accept Jesus as their savior.

If you accept Jesus then you are in the Church. The denomination is a label applied by people.


4 posted on 08/23/2008 3:46:30 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: NYer

“And this is still true today in those parts of the world where Catholics continue to be persecuted for their faith”

Are they being persecuted for being Christian or for being Catholic?


5 posted on 08/23/2008 3:48:59 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: driftdiver

You wrote:

“Sorry, not buying it. The Church isn’t a building.”

Who said it was? Seriously, who ever said THE CHURCH was a building?

“Its the body of people that worship and accept Jesus as their savior.”

Sorry, but you’ve fallen for that invisible church nonsense invented by 16th century Protestants.

“If you accept Jesus then you are in the Church. The denomination is a label applied by people.”

Jesus founded the Church - not men. I’m not in a denomination.


6 posted on 08/23/2008 3:54:19 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: driftdiver

You wrote:

“Are they being persecuted for being Christian or for being Catholic?”

In Muslims countries they’re persecuted for being Christians. In the other places they’re usually persecuted for being specifically Catholic.


7 posted on 08/23/2008 3:55:42 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: driftdiver
If you accept Jesus then you are in the Church.

Is the Church to be a loose conglomerate of believers or is it to be organized and structured?  Scripture clearly established "offices" and a "hierarchy" among Christians.  The offices of "bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon" are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ).  What else is this but "organization?"  Or should we believe that any believer can "claim" to be a bishop, priest, deacon or even "apostle?"  The word "office" is specifically used in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1) to describe these positions.  Webster defines "office" as "A special duty, trust, charge, or position, conferred by authority or God and for a public purpose; a position of trust or authority."  And the office of "apostle" is to be continued (Acts 1:20-26) to the present day.  Not all believers are "equal" nor have the same gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10; Ephesians 4:11).   Is the Church a "visible, earthly" entity?  Yes, for Christ would not direct us to the Church for disputes if it were not here on Earth (Matthew 18:17).   Nor would "fear" encompass the whole Church if it were a mystical, invisible and heavenly entity (Acts 5:11).  The Church is definitely here on earth for the actions described in Acts definitely take place on earth and the term used is "the whole Church" (Acts 15:22). cf

8 posted on 08/23/2008 3:56:36 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: driftdiver
Are they being persecuted for being Christian or for being Catholic?

In the majority of these countries, Catholicism is still the only christian faith practiced. In China, they are being persecuted for not succumbing to the "official" (government organized) Catholic Church.

9 posted on 08/23/2008 3:59:12 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

The church we see in the book of Acts and in the epistles, the original first century church, was not the RCC. The RCC represents apostate Christianity, not original Christianity.


10 posted on 08/23/2008 4:06:26 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas; vladimir998
The church we see in the book of Acts and in the epistles, the original first century church, was not the RCC. The RCC represents apostate Christianity, not original Christianity.

Really? So you are calling Jesus a liar? Matt 16:18

11 posted on 08/23/2008 4:11:02 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: sasportas; NYer

Since Protestantism came 1500 years after Christ IT must be apostate Christianity. Christ established a Church. If your came 1500 or 1900 years later, then you know it isn’t legitimate.


12 posted on 08/23/2008 4:14:31 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

This is nonsense. Muslims are out to kill every non-muslim in the world and you folks are trying to stir up problems within Christianity.

Catholics have been persecuted in history. Catholics have also been the persecutors of others.

What places are targeting Catholics for being catholic?


13 posted on 08/23/2008 4:23:55 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: vladimir998

“Who said it was? Seriously, who ever said THE CHURCH was a building?”

You said it was the Catholic church. The church isn’t a label.

“Sorry, but you’ve fallen for that invisible church nonsense invented by 16th century Protestants.”

No, I’m quite visible as are those I worship with. We worship in a building thats also visible.

“Jesus founded the Church - not men. I’m not in a denomination.”

Men apply their labels in an effort to make themselves believe they are better then others.


14 posted on 08/23/2008 4:26:41 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: sasportas

“The church we see in the book of Acts and in the epistles, the original first century church, was not the RCC”
The hateful way this issue is being raised makes me think it is not of a Godly person.


15 posted on 08/23/2008 4:29:44 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: NYer

“In China, they are being persecuted for not succumbing to the “official” (government organized) Catholic Church.”

You are misrepresenting the issue on purpose. They are being persecuted for being Christian. That they are Catholic (if they are) is a side issue. I know of many Christians who have been persecuted and had nothing to do with Catholicism.


16 posted on 08/23/2008 4:31:38 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: NYer

“The offices of “bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon” are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ). “

Yes they are. Where’s the Pope? Where’s the bible indicate you must go thru a priest to be forgiven? Wheres the bible say good works get you to heaven?

“What else is this but “organization?” “

Sure its an organization.

“Is the Church a “visible, earthly” entity? “

Sure it is, the church is where two or more believers come together to worship. It does not require gold, silver, fine architecture, or other trappings of many modern buildings.


17 posted on 08/23/2008 4:35:23 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: driftdiver

You wrote:

“This is nonsense. Muslims are out to kill every non-muslim in the world and you folks are trying to stir up problems within Christianity.”

1) The problems already exist and have existed for almost 500 years. Pretending they don’t exist won’t make them go away.

“Catholics have been persecuted in history. Catholics have also been the persecutors of others.”

Yeah, and?

“What places are targeting Catholics for being catholic?”

China, Russia, historically in America, etc.


18 posted on 08/23/2008 4:36:14 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: driftdiver

Cstho;ics have murdered tens of thousands in the name of God. They have very bloody hands.


19 posted on 08/23/2008 4:40:00 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Conservation? Let the NE Yankees freeze.... in the dark)
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To: vladimir998

“1) The problems already exist and have existed for almost 500 years. Pretending they don’t exist won’t make them go away.”

The problems with Muslims have existed for about 1000 years. perhaps if you weren’t adding divisiveness to the issue it would be resolved.

“China, Russia, historically in America, etc.”

Wow talk about a victim mentality. Nobody cares about Catholics until you start this “we’re better than you are” garbage.


20 posted on 08/23/2008 4:40:52 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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