The use of KJV English in the Book of Mormon

Deseret News via FairLDS ^ | 1961 | Hugh Nibley

[freeplancer]

Gosh, I remember when this was a conservative political website. I miss the good old days.

[MHGinTN]

This may be the answer to your invitation ... bwahahahaha, such a thing!

[dayglored]

> Gosh, I remember when this was a conservative political website. I miss the good old days.

Well, at least this was posted in the Religion section...

It could be worse -- it could have shown up in Breaking News...

[MHGinTN]

Here's a related thread on the topic that some may wish to read along with this one.

[Notwithstanding]

I agree with the criticism, and this article does not debunk it in the least.

The use of KJV langauge will forever dog LDS apologists forever because it is hard evidence that the books were made up by Joseph Smith.

Just as objective archeological and historical analysis of the book of Mormon and a comparitive religion analysis of the Mormon rituals disproves the authenticity of Joseph Smith’s claims, so too the book of Mormon itself.

I admire many Mormon friends for the virtue they display, however I despise and pity them for their cowardly fear of any rational discussion of their dubious beliefs.

[MHGinTN]

BTW, Grig went to your thread and posted a link to this wooden nickle ... I’d say the mormonism cabal has been busy following up on your invitation to DU.

[Saundra Duffy]

“The use of KJV langauge will forever dog LDS apologists forever because it is hard evidence that the books were made up by Joseph Smith.”

I have a testimony deep in my heart of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. In its pages I have grown to love my Savior even more. In its pages I have grown to love my Heavenly Father even more. And in its pages I hear and feel the still small voice of the Holy Ghost.

I am sorry you feel that I am a “coward” - that was not a very Christian thing to call me. You know me and you know that one thing I am NOT is a coward. I have spit right in the devil’s face - more than once.

I love my Church. I love my Savior.

My eyes filled with tears of gratefulness when I saw the actual scrolls at the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit in San Diego. The presence of the Holy Ghost was very strong. There is a scroll that was found alongside the others referred to as the “Alma Scroll” - “Alma, Son of Judah” - the first time the name “Alma” appears as a man’s name outside the Book of Mormon.

You can’t have read the Book of Mormon. If you had, you would at least have to admit it has literary significance.

I was raised to fear and loathe Mormons and Catholics and Jews - and I used to make fun of them, so I sort of know where you are coming from, and it’s not very pretty.

It scares me a little when intelligent people are so vicious in their holier-than-thou attacks against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It hurts, too.

A Baptist woman told me right to my face, “You are not a Christian.” I told her that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior; He suffered and died for me to save me from my sins; and I love Him with all my heart. Heavenly Father is my real Dad who loves me and sent His only begotten Son to die for me. Me! And the Holy Ghost tells me this is true.

I am sorry you have such a low opinion of me, especially after I put myself out there for you.

[SkyDancer]

Interesting also is the name Sam which is the Americanized name of Samuel plus the word Adieu which is modern French in the BOM ... I once read that the reason for using KJV English was to make the BOM sound more “Biblical” ....

[MHGinTN]

Oh, I forgot the decoder ring signal P>

Flying Inmans Ping!

Don't hose me, bro!

[Saundra Duffy]

CTR

[Spunky]

Not only did they use quotes from the KJV (without identifing the source except for LOTS from Isiah, they took the below idea from the Westminster Confession of faith.

Westminster Confession of faith
Chapter 32
Of the State of Men after Death,
and of the Resurrection of the Dead
1. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:a but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:b the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.c And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.d Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.
2. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:e and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.f
3. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by his Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to his own glorious body.g

BOOK OF MORMON THIS PORTION
SUPPOSEDLY WRITTEN IN 73 B.C.
RLDS Alma 19:42-58
LDS Alma 40:11-18

Now concerning the soul between death and the resurrection, Behold, it has been made known to me by an angel that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. Then shall it come to pass that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles, and from all care, and sorrow. And then shall it come to pass that the spirits of the wicked, those who are evil-for, behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord, for, behold, they choose evil works, rather than good, therefore the spirit of the devil enters into them and takes possession of their house - shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil. Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise,until the time of their resurrection. Now there are some who have understood that this state of happiness, and this state of misery of the soul, before the resurrection, was a first resurrection. I admit it may be termed a resurrection- the raising of the spirit or the soul, and its consignation to happiness or misery- according to the words which have been spoken. And behold, again it has been spoken that there is a first resurrection- a resurrection of all those who have been, or who are, or who shall be, down to the resurrection of Christ from the dead. Now we do not suppose that this first resurrection, which is spoken of in this manner, can be the resurrection of the soul, and their consignation to happiness or misery. You cannot suppose that this is what it means. Behold, I say to you, No; but it means the reuniting of the soul with the body

It is my personal belief that Sidney Rigdon who was well schooled in theology had a big influence in the Mormon theology.

[wintertime]

Professor Gaster, too, falls under the spell of our religious idiom.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

While modern English has abandoned the second person familiar ( thy thee, thou, thine) other languages retain it. If the original text used the second person familiar then an accurate translation should use thee, thy, thou, and thine in its English translation. To use the third person formal ( you) would not be an accurate rendition of the original meaning of the text.

[MHGinTN]

You might enjoy reading the thread at my link in post #5 ...

[Spunky]

Also in the Book of Mormon in Alma the people are called Christians long before Christ was born. In the Bible they were not called Christians untill they followed Christ. And I think it was Alma or Mosiah where he called the Son of God, Jesus, (because he was told that would be his name. I don’t think the prophets in the Old Testament knew his name was going to be Jesus.

[wintertime]

It scares me a little when intelligent people are so vicious in their holier-than-thou attacks against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

When conservative Republicans attack other religions ( Mormon, Catholic, Jehovah Witnesses, Scientology, etc.) they should **NOT** be surprised that Jews vote Democratic. If I were a Jew I would be wondering when these so-called “Christian” Republican conservatives were going to turn on Judaism and Jews.

I am not a Mormon, by the way, but strive mightily to see the commonalities among other religions and my own.

Personally, I would be thrilled to have many more Mormons in my community. They are good people and wonderful neighbors.

[Republic_of_Secession.]

This is a slippery slope as there are accusations that parts of the Bible was plagiarized from Sumerian works.

[Spunky]

"Personally, I would be thrilled to have many more Mormons in my community. They are good people and wonderful neighbors."

I agree whole heartedly. I have a young family right next door. I do not talk religion with them as it is their business but if they were to ever approach me and try to convert me I would tell/show them the same things that are shown here.

We are not bashing whoever posts these threads personally but discussing why we don't believe the way they do.

[wintertime]

So far, the thread has been civil in tone.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“You can’t have read the Book of Mormon. If you had, you would at least have to admit it has literary significance.”

Saundra, this is obviously a very emotional issue for you. I do not want to hurt your feelings. You seem very sincere. I just can’t see any “literary significance” in the BOM. It’s not well written. It’s clearly a forgery, a fraud invented by Smith. There are numerous mistakes. There are anachronisms galore: steel, horses, chariots, silk, scimitars, etc. I know of no one other than Mormons, and a few “scholars” of 19th century America who think it has literary significance. I’m not going to lie to you and say I’ve read the whole thing, but I’ve read enough to know that it sounds like someone is trying rather hard to mimic the KJV.