Posted on 05/28/2008 6:05:04 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Hello fellow Freepers. I believe this is my first post on the Religion forum.
Over the past week or so, I put some thought into something I've been pondering for a while; my spiritual welfare. As it was, I had been part of the 'Sola Scriptua' school of thought (Evangelical Christian). By the Bible and only the Bible. Sounded good enough.
Well...what about before the Bible was put into word? It stuck in my head when reading an article earlier on FR concerning a deconstruction of Sola Scriptura and its inherent weaknesses as a foundation for one's faith.
This, combined with a genuine lack of churchgoing (as a family, we've been uncertain about going to various churches, given that top-down problems with Episcopal/Methodist/etc. churches and their increasing liberalization are a genuine problem for one's spiritual welfare), compelled me to make a decision.
I don't know if my family will follow me, persay, but I'm going to go ahead and take the plunge.
Next month, I'm going to the Church of St. Thomas the Apostle near my home, and I'm joining the Roman Catholic Church.
As is, I have a few volumes of the Magnificat pamphlet and the Catechism of the Catholic Church to read.
Any other pointers from other Catholic Freepers?
But so..........um.......realistic!!!!
I wonder............
Unfortunately, no. It’s been floating around various Catholic forums for years now.
God bless you and welcome home! I joined the Church September 25, 2007 after 6 months of study, questions and prayer; I still have a lot to learn and I am working at it diligently. (Do not become discouraged if you meet the odd Catholic, particularly male Catholic, who greets your honest questions with demands that you “repent” immediately of something you may have said because you simply did not know the Church position on that matter, or did not fully understand it.)
I find that EWTN is my best help, besides C.S. Lewis. I would recommend “Threshold of Hope” as a study guide (on EWTN) and Father Corapi http://www.fathercorapi.com/ for a no-nonsense, right-among-the-people explanation of the basics.
Oh, and ask people here anything; I have found people at FR eager to answer my questions and guide my steps.
We should start a caucus thread with it.
Heh!
I think your post may have been misdirected, should probably go to US007 above.
It’s been 25 years since I converted...Please accept MY welcome, to you, and my prayers for you. I commend you for your diligence, FRiend.
I believe that too, just not exclusively. There isn't just one letter to one church in Revelation.
I believe that baptism is necessary, but not sufficient for salvation.
Baptism? It wasn't necessary for the thief to be redeemed on the cross next to Jesus. I am sure people are dunked without truly turning to Christ as Lord and Savior. Baptism is a powerful symbol and outward statement, but it is our hearts that need to be changed.
I believe that while it is His desire that we receive the sacraments, for our own benefit, and so that we have the means of further sanctification, it is possible for one who dies with complete contrition for his sins and a desire for baptism, to gain salvation through the merits of the Catholic Church-particularly through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
While sacraments and repeated religious actions can be a very good thing, they are particularly dangerous to become the object that is worshiped rather than God. Like the bronze serpent, they become gods rather than a lens to help us focus on God. I believe the more ritual that surrounds a symbol, the more likely the symbol becomes a god.
So, the lost and separated are non-Catholics and fallen away Catholics, and even practicing Catholics who have fallen into serious sin.
You set yourself up to judge hearts here. The Catholic church is not perfect. People can have legitimate and morally righteous reasons for leaving or deciding not to join.
Ya wanna borrow my tagline?
Ya wanna borrow my tagline?
If the problem is that we think that those in communion with the Holy See have something good that other groups do not have, then I can't help it. That's what we think. Why else would one join the Catholic Church, for the guitar Masses?
In comparing eating in an unpleasant place to eating in the dining room, I wasn't so much characterizing the others groups as I was trying to say that one can be nourished without getting the full benefits of a meal. You seemed to be insisting that we were saying you were lost. I was trying to explain how one can think someone has the essentials but not the full benefits of a thing.
But, as I say, those who want to have their feelings hurt will tend to have their desire granted.
You know what this is like? It's like trying to explain to a homosexual that even if it WERE true that they have an inborn or otherwise blameless in origin desire for homosexual activity, it is still wrong by using the analogy of kleptomania. They get all huffy and say, "You're saying I'm like a thief!"
"Well, yeah, in a certain sense, maybe I am. If any argument which supports my point is going to be taken as offensive, then I guess you're going to be offended," is what I reply.
LOL! Looks like you’ve already made a lot of sales just on FR! Can’t wait for release 2.0! ;-)
Okay, straight face dissolves. That's hysterical.
I missed that thread.
That would be an odd Catholic indeed. In fact I would seriously doubt his true catholicism. Catholics don't go around telling people to repent. It is just not our "style" if you know what I mean. That sounds more like the evangelical type although there are some charismatic type of catholics that might be so inclined but it would be very unusual in my opinion.
Hope all's been well since!
Guitar Masses? I can think of many reasons to join the Catholic church that doesn't necessarily reject other Christians. The Catholic church has history and ritual to it that many find comforting. It has well-established teachings that are clarified and expounded on to the finest detail. It has a worldwide network and hierarchical structure that can answer questions about faith as good as humanly possible. But it also has well-publicized moral and ethical failings that preclude it from being perfection on Earth.
Gotta go, so I’ll be brief.
The thief desired salvation through Christ. He died without the opportunity to receive it-Baptism by desire. Jesus told His apostles to preach the Gospel, and to baptize.
He said it needed to be done. I believe Him.
Sacraments: We do not worship them. We avail ourselves of the graces we receive through them as they were given to us for that purpose by Our Lord, Jesus Christ.
I judge noone. I leave that to God. However, He left us with a Church. This Church instructs us in accordance with God’s will. This way, we’re not stray sheep, wandering off the cliff.
Pax.
I am left with only two conclusions about such posters:
1. They are DELIBERATELY bearing false witness.
or
2. They are simply not intelligent enough to remember what they have been told on a daily basis for years.
But, regardless of which category they fall into, they really have no business in any serious discourse because ALL they are capable of is disruption and distortion.
Is there a Mac version or is it only available for Windows?
Were the churches in Revelation distinct in their theology and administrative structures? Had they separated from one another over doctrinal differences?
Okay we differ on Baptism. (The lingo, incidentally, is "ordinarily necessary". We contemplate exceptions. Some have been stated by Catholics on this thread, one in the post to which you are responding.) This is a difference. Are we both right? Is it good to have the correct opinion? The group that has the correct opinion would, in that one respect, be better than the other group. Should the other group be offended?
You set yourself up to judge hearts here.
Isn't SOME judging of hearts unavoidable? Isn't characterising my attitude toward "the separated brethren, at least possibly an instance of heart-judging?
Further, to get back to the dinner analogy, someone may banish himself to solitude in a clean but bare room and eat by himself. Whatever his motivation, he still deprives himself of the benefits of the dining room.
Further, while it is always wrong not to follow one's conscience, one can be mistaken. What may mistakenly believed to be a good reason for leaving or deciding not to join may not in fact be a good reason. Judging by the astonishing level of misunderstanding on FR about what we truly teach, I'd wager a number of people are leaving or not joining for notions which IF they were true (but they aren't) would indeed be good reasons not to join.
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