Posted on 05/28/2008 6:05:04 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Hello fellow Freepers. I believe this is my first post on the Religion forum.
Over the past week or so, I put some thought into something I've been pondering for a while; my spiritual welfare. As it was, I had been part of the 'Sola Scriptua' school of thought (Evangelical Christian). By the Bible and only the Bible. Sounded good enough.
Well...what about before the Bible was put into word? It stuck in my head when reading an article earlier on FR concerning a deconstruction of Sola Scriptura and its inherent weaknesses as a foundation for one's faith.
This, combined with a genuine lack of churchgoing (as a family, we've been uncertain about going to various churches, given that top-down problems with Episcopal/Methodist/etc. churches and their increasing liberalization are a genuine problem for one's spiritual welfare), compelled me to make a decision.
I don't know if my family will follow me, persay, but I'm going to go ahead and take the plunge.
Next month, I'm going to the Church of St. Thomas the Apostle near my home, and I'm joining the Roman Catholic Church.
As is, I have a few volumes of the Magnificat pamphlet and the Catechism of the Catholic Church to read.
Any other pointers from other Catholic Freepers?
I am certain XeniaSt is well aware Constantine does not appear in the List Of Popes. That he was the defacto head of the "Christian" church is a matter of record. He controlled it's destiny and exercised total power over this church. Perhaps we should rightly call him the Popes Pope.
It would be a worthwhile exercise for you to study the List Of Popes and determine for yourself if you are still confident of it's authenticity.
A few exerpts from the CE and the Oxford Dictionary Of Popes might prove interesting.
The Catholic Encyclopedia:
POPE ST. PETER
Although the fact of St. Peter's activity and death in Rome is so clearly established, we possess no precise information regarding the details of his Roman sojourn. The narratives contained in the apocryphal literature of the second century concerning the supposed strife between Peter and Simon Magus belong to the domain of legend . From the already mentioned statements regarding the origin of the Gospel of St. Mark we may conclude that Peter laboured for a long period in Rome . This conclusion is confirmed by the unanimous voice of tradition which, as early as the second half of the second century, designates the Prince of the Apostles the founder of the Roman Church.
Pope St. Linus
(Reigned about A.D. 64 or 67 to 76 or 79).
Pope St. Anacletus
The second successor of St. Peter . Whether he was the same as Cletus , who is also called Anencletus as well as Anacletus, has been the subject of endless discussion. Irenaeus , Eusebius , Augustine, Optatus, use both names indifferently as of one person . Tertullian omits him altogether. To add to the confusion, the order is different.
Pope St. Clement I
Pope Clement I (called CLEMENS ROMANUS to distinguish him from the Alexandrian , is the first of the successors of St. Peter of whom anything definite is known, and he is the first of the "Apostolic Fathers". His feast is celebrated 23 November. He has left one genuine writing, a letter to the Church of Corinth , and many others have been attributed to him.
According to Tertullian , writing c. 199, the Roman Church claimed that Clement was ordained by St. Peter (De Praescript., xxxii), and St. Jerome tells us that in his time "most of the Latins" held that Clement was the immediate successor of the Apostle (De viris illustr., xv). St. Jerome himself in several other places follows this opinion, but here he correctly states that Clement was the fourth pope. The early evidence shows great variety.
Facts: Very little.
Legend, Tradition, Assumption: Yes.
POPE ST. SYLVESTER
Date of birth unknown; d. 31 December, 335. According to the "Liber pontificalis" (ed. Duchesne, I, 170) he was the son of a Roman named Rufinus; the legendary "Vita beati Sylvestri" calls his mother Justa. After the death of Miltiades (Melchiades), Sylvester was made Bishop of Rome and occupied this position twenty-one years. This was the era of Constantine the Great , when the public position of the Church so greatly improved, a change which must certainly have been very noticeable at Rome ; it is consequently to be regretted that there is so little authoritative information concerning Sylvester's pontificate. At an early date legend brings him into close relationship wtih the first Christian emperor, but in a way that is contrary to historical fact.
A nonentity. What else is there to be said?
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Excerpts from the Oxford Dictionary Of Popes. (They end in mid sentence because the snippets are enticements to learn more for $'s. They do convey the message however.)
Peter, St, Apostle From: The Oxford Dictionary of Popes Author: J. N. D. KELLY | Copyright information © The Oxford Dictionary of Popes 1996, originally published by Oxford University Press 1996.
Peter, St, Apostle (d. c. 64). The papacy, through successive popes and councils, has always traced its origins and title-deeds to the unique commission reported to have been given by Jesus Christ to Peter, the chief of his Apostles, later to be martyred when organizing the earliest group of Christians at Rome. Information about Peter's career, personality, and standing in the primitive Christian community is provided by the NT, supplemented by ancient, reliable tradition. The NT accounts come from a variety of sources, originating at widely differing dates and coloured by the often divergent viewpoints of their authors, but the picture of the Apostle which emerges from them is ...
Linus, St From: The Oxford Dictionary of Popes Author: J. N. D. KELLY | Copyright information © The Oxford Dictionary of Popes 1996, originally published by Oxford University Press 1996.
Linus, St ( c. 66– c. 78). According to the earliest succession lists of bishops of Rome, passed down by Irenaeus of Lyons ( c. 180) and Hegesippus ( c. 160) and attested by the historian Eusebius ( c. 260– c. 340), he was entrusted with his office by the Apostles Peter and Paul after they had established the Christian church in Rome. By this primitive reckoning he was therefore the first pope, but from the late 2nd or early 3rd cent. the convention began of regarding St Peter as first bishop. What Linus's actual functions and responsibilities were can only be guessed, for the monarchical, or one-man, episcopate had not yet emerged in Rome. Irenaeus and Eusebius ...
Anacletus, St From: The Oxford Dictionary of Popes Author: J. N. D. KELLY | Copyright information © The Oxford Dictionary of Popes 1996, originally published by Oxford University Press 1996.
Anacletus, St ( c. 79– c. 91). In the earliest succession lists of bishops of Rome he follows Linus , second in the line inaugurated by the Apostles Peter and Paul. Later convention reckons him the third pope from St Peter. His actual functions and responsibilities can only be surmised, for the monarchical, or one-man, episcopate had not yet emerged in Rome. His name, correctly given as Anencletus, is a Greek adjective meaning ‘blameless’; the fact that St Paul required a bishop to be ‘blameless’ (Tit. 1: 7) has needlessly caused some to doubt his existence. The term was a not uncommon name for a slave, and this may give a clue to his social ...
POPE CLEMENT I ( c. 91– c. 101). In the 2nd-cent. succession lists of bishops of Rome he follows Anacletus , being therefore third in the line inaugurated by the Apostles Peter and Paul; later convention reckoned him fourth pope in the line beginning with St Peter. Another tradition, attested by Tertullian ( c. 160– c. 225) and Jerome (331–420), regarded him as having been consecrated by St Peter and as his immediate successor. Irenaeus ( c. 180) states that, having seen and conversed with the Apostles Clement was a repository of their teaching and tradition. Writers of the 3rd and 4th cents., like Origen, Eusebius, and Jerome, equate him, perhaps correctly, with ...
Oxford Dictionary Of Popes
Great Job Dad!!!!!
I hope my girls turn out as good as your son did.
The claim of ulterior motive for the thread and conspiracy theories related to that claim. The claims have been removed. The issues is closed, the scab is formed. There is to be no further discussion of it.
>>It’s been awhile since I’ve seen a RC defend JPII’s loss of sanity and grace which he displayed when he willfully kissed the Koran, gift or not.<<
Good thing JPII is gone and no longer running our church. I will be the first to say that JPII while wonderfully spiritual, concentrated too much on others and should have paid more attention to his flock. Now B16 is doing a great job.
When he watched out for us he was wonderful. And I’m Polish.
>>Only the King James Version (you know, the one used by Paul), red letter edition, large print, double wide margins, in loose-leaf (that way they can remove the pages that trouble them). <<
LOLOLOL!!!
Is that the one that fell from heaven into the laps of believers?
I believe the correct, um, locution is:
God IS DONE giveth the increase ....
It's in the past present emphatic tense.
Yours for a richer experience of English as she is spoke.
I agree. I got a copy after 9/11. I wanted to know what would drive young men to kill themselves.
Know your enemy.
Is that with or without zippers?
When I was 18, my then Catholic dad was 45. He’s 80 this year. He’s been a non-Catholic Christian since age 45, and teaches a faithful Bible class in a small church in the Sierra Mts. He testifies that he got in to the Body of Christ at age 45. You would say, what? He was cut off from Christ?
That would be, uh, Causa finita, right?
G,D&R
I would say he’s cut himself off from some graces, yes. Not from Christ. Not for me to say.
I was raised Catholic to 12 (baptism, catechism, confirmation), and then my folks stopped taking us to church. It is MY dad’s biggest regret, one that he has been working to rectify for the last 15 years (since then he has been going to Mass daily.)
So, I am on a long journey home. My wife and I were on our way to the RCC (went to two services, not receiving the Eucharist) when the church sexual abuse scandal broke, and we had a tough time dealing with that since we are protective of our kids. We couldn’t understand how such a thing could be covered up instead of exposed to the Light of Truth, where Satan has no power.
However, at the same time, we had (in our then-current protestant church) a scandal involving an elder and another elders wife. I now read weekly some scandal or another involving religious of all Christian denominations (like the ptotestant minister in Texas last week that drove 200 miles to meet with a 13-yo girl he met on the internet) and it seems to me that the wise evaluation is that Satan is attacking where he can do the most damage.
It is everywhere, and that has made it an easy choice to do bible study at home, and not have to deal with the hypocritical behaviors in every church we have tried (sola scriptura and Episcopal).
Now since Benedict has been Pope, there is a real change occuring within the RCC.
I continue my journey, while praying for guidance.
My son (Ultra) has an internal nature that he was given as a gift, and his wisdom on the abortion issue, his website, various college papers and his activism against it did not come from MY wisdom. It came from God. If you have gone to that website I posted, you would see that he frames the issue from numerous angles and answers all of them in a clear, thoughtful manner that is easy to understand and difficult to dismiss.
He joined a non-denominational group at college that worked on anti-abortion issues, and the fact that every single member in the group was Catholic probably helped to shape his opinion about where he belonged. There is no greater social issue than this one in his mind.
Just some background, since you asked.
But please, let’s stop with the thoughts that he had some ulterior motive. He doesn’t have it in him. At all.
I’m glad you gave your background. It does sound Catholic for the most part, with the exception of the scandal in a protestant church.
I’m sorry, IMA, but I’ve not seen the evidence that would yet erase the credibility issues.
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