What do Mormons believe?

none ^ | 05-27-08 | myself

[ChurtleDawg]

Reading all of these threads about Mormonism, I am utterly confused about what Mormonism is, exactly. What is all of this stuff about Jews coming to America in 600 BC? What is the Book of Abraham and why is Abraham writing in Egyptian Hieroglyphs? What does the book of Mormon? What is the storyline of it?

I am confused as to what all of the Mormon writings are about, and how it is all put together theologically.

Please explain.

[BlueMoose]

Do you call bringing the truth about Mormon beliefs to the fore ‘attacks’?

iF IT'S TRUTH. THE ASNWER IS nO.

[Old Mountain man]

If Elsie doesn’t have to answer questions, neither do I.

[SeaHawkFan]

They have no reason to lie. I was just watching the NG channell.

Are you claiming the leadership have no reason to lie? You are either blind to the truth, lying, or terribly naive.

[Old Mountain man]

Exbaptist.com, exchristian.com to name a few. Which of those are by LDS people?

Which of those anti-christian threads here on FR are by LDS people. None?

Which anti-LDS posts are posted by so-called christians?

HMMMMMMMM . . .

[restornu]

I know Mormons are followers of Joseph Smith who believe they have “restored” the Christianity of the New Testament

So those in the OT followed Abraham, Noah, or Moses even though they were the Lord's mouth piece?

May I bring to light that the LDS have Free agency and many strive to obey the Lord counsel that He has given to his servants but there are some who don't.

Through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints we know that from the beginning of time that doctrine of Jesus Christ was always talked about in the OT as well as in the NT.

Many LDS who study their Standard works realized that the Bible was heavily influenced with Plato and other type philosophy.

[restornu]

Can you answer this? It is a simple yes or no. Was Jesus Christ God from all eternity?

****

In Jesus own words...

John 5
17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

[Twinkie]

The only possible misunderstanding is that those Mormon missionaries were lying and had given me a book that wasn’t really from the Mormon church, because I am clear on what they said and also what the book said. Those boys were too young to think fast on their feet; and, evidently that book was one they had obtained from the Mormon cache of books.

All that aside. Let me ask. Someone, anyone? If the Mormon men and women are to go on into eternity, forever and forever, eternally married in their special underwear,(this is not meant to embarrass anyone) forever and forever having sex and the woman being eternally pregnant and having scads of kids, living as gods (the only one here I can see as the “god” in this arrangement is the MAN, but be that as it may) - who then “gets” the women who convert to the Mormon religion in the afterlife according to Mormon teaching? There must be some official explanation about this to nullify those old stories about the “gods” getting to have lots of wives - and surely the converted women aren’t meant to be left out of the “fun”?

Twinkie

[Osage Orange]

Where are we right now, OMM?

On FR....

Search FR...

Just put LDS in the search...and you will find as many anti-Christians threads as you need....

[Old Mountain man]

You mean like this one?

[BlueMoose]

What is TRUTH ?

[BlueMoose]

How Christian of you.

[sevenbak]

Problem with that approach is that there are 30 thousand plus different Christian sects, all teaching different things, different doctrines. Again, the need for a clear direction from apostles and prophets is clear:

Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Further, we are commanded to be unified in other references as well. And yet, many different versions of faith and baptism exist... from the same chapter, a little earlier:

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The need for a Prophet of God is clear. And the need for us to have a witness through the power of the Holy Spirit of his calling and stewardship is also extremely important. I don't follow man, but I do follow those whom God tells me to follow.

[sevenbak]

I'll take this one. One of my favorite subjects.

Did you know there were 10,000 mounds in Michigan alone? Few are left, and have been scattered and farmed over. The Adena and Hopewell cultures fit the time frame, (around 100- 400 AD) pretty closely.

Further, I find these references absolutely fascinating. This one is from the Governor of New York, written long before the plates were ever discovered by JS.

“Previous to the occupancy of this region by the progenitors of the present race of Indians, it was inhabited by a race of men much more populous and more advanced in civilization. Who they were, whence they came and whither they went, have been themes of speculation by learned antiquarians, who have failed to arrive at any satisfactory conclusion. ...Why have we no history of such a nation as must have inhabited this part of the world? Probably if a knowledge of these ancient people is ever obtained, it will be derived from inscriptions on stone or metals, which have withstood the rust of time.” 1812, Governor De Witt Clinton

And this one. It's from an early American historian named Orsamus Turner. The book is called “Pioneer History of the Holland Purchase of Western New York”

“We are surrounded by evidence that a race preceded the present Indians, farther advanced in civilizations and the arts, and far more numerous. Here and there upon the brow of hills, at the head of ravines, are their fortifications, their location selected with skill and adapted to refuge, subsistence and defense. Uprooted trees of the forest that are the growth of many centuries, expose their molding remains, the uncovered mounds with masses of their skeletons promiscuously heaped one on top of the other, as if they were the gathered and hurriedly entombed dead of well contested battlefields. In our villages, upon our hillsides, the plow and the spade discover their rude implements adapted to war, the chase and domestic use. All these unintelligible witnesses, bring but unsatisfactory knowledge of races that have preceded us.
Although not confined to this region, there is perhaps no portion of the United States where ancient relics are more numerous. Commencing near Oswego River, they extended westwardly over all the western counties of the state. We clear away our forests and speak familiarly of subduing the “Virgin soil,” and yet the plow up turns the skulls of those whose history is lost. Then as now the western portion of New York state had attractions and inducements to make it a favorite residence, for this ancient people, assailed from the north and east, made this their refuge in a war of extermination, fortified the commanding eminences, met the shock of a final issue, were subject to its adverse results. The forest invited the chase, the rivers and lakes local commerce and fishing, and the fertile soil for agriculture. The evidence that this was one, at least of their final battlefields, predominate. They are the fortifications, entrenchments and warlike instruments of an extinct race. That here was a war of extermination, we may well conclude, from masses of human skeletons we find indiscriminately thrown together, indicating a common and simultaneous sepulcher from which age, infancy, sex and no condition, was exempt.”
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=qLb7KoAuyo4C&dq=%22pioneer+history+of+the+holland+purchase%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=RWn_inE5Fx&sig=3JbQ0YZ8qVoWM86Lt1cRVgwLw38#PPR13,M1

[sevenbak]

Which version of Pauls vision to you believe? There are several. In both cases, different audiences were given different focuses, and the records indicated that.

[wardaddy]

I disgagree with that.

I was raised Southern Baptist. We were never taught we restored anything. We were just taught that each of us had our own personal relationship directly with God and Christ and the Holy Spirit.

[Elsie]

If Elsie doesn’t have to answer questions, neither do I.

 

 

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              Hear me!

 

Time:    Statement:

0:09    I've not had all my questions answered - the LORD hasn't chosen to do that...

0:11    HE probably hasn't answered all of yours...

[Elsie]

[Elsie]

 

Problem with that approach is that there are 30 thousand plus different Christian sects, all teaching different things, different doctrines. Again, the need for a clear direction from apostles and prophets is clear:

 

The reason you have so many MORMON Organizations  is because the Bible is subject to every spin that comes down the pike,

along with disagreements about all the other 'scriptures' that the faithful are SUPPOSED to BELIEVE in: BoM, D&C's, PGP, BoA... ad nauseum.

 

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"We do not indorse the teachings of any so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the Church of Christ as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word--the Book of Mormon--drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings."

-- David Whitmer (an elder in the Church of Christ), 1887

 

Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.

Just a sampling...........

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. The Church of Jesus Christ, and the LDS) is by far the largest Mormon denomination. It is a continuation of the "Rocky Mountain Saint" branch of Mormonism.
• The more liberal Community of Christ (formerly called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is second in size. It is a continuation of the "Prairie Saint" movement. Although generally referred to as "Mormons," they do not use the term themselves, because of its association with polygamy and because they believe the name was not part of the original church.
• Many additional small Mormon faith groups, including:
  • Aaronic Order: unknown membership; 6 centers; 20 ministers
  • Apostolic United Brethren: about 7,000 members. They disagree with the LDS' decision to allow ordination of African-Americans and allowing women to assume leadership positions.
  • Church of Christ (Fetting/Bronson): about 2000 members
  • Church of Christ (Temple Lot): about 2400 members
  • The Church of Christ "With The Elijah Message," established anew in 1929 12,500 members worldwide
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite): about 2700 members
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: about 11 million members
  • The Community of Christ: about 250,000 members. This denomination was formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- the "RLDS Church". It was formed in 1860 by remnants of the original church who did not make the trek to Utah. They reject certain beliefs and practices of the LDS church, including marriage sealing for eternity; they allow both men and women into the priesthood; their services are open to the public. They have about 250,000 members.
  • United Order Effort: a polygamy practicing group, excommunicated by the main LDS church,  of perhaps 10,000 members
  • The Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It split from the Reorganized Church in 1991 because of the latter's liberal theology. It is centered in Independence, Missouri, and had an estimated membership of 2,500 in mid-1996. They publish a periodical "The Restoration Advocate" six times a year.

[Elsie]

 

Which version of Pauls vision to you believe? There are several. In both cases, different audiences were given different focuses, and the records indicated that.

 

You go first:

 

But to WHICH version of the 'vision' are you going to refer?  There are a BUNCH of them!!

 

 

 FIRST VISION:VARIOUS VERSIONS OF VISIONS  

Version Number  When  Published  Brief Description	Age  Year	Pillar   of  light	No. of  Person-  ages	Father  Present	Son  Present	Question:  Join What  Sect?	Remarks-References
1. Offical version,  written 1838,  first  Published 1842  (There are minor differences between the various source references, Ensign  Jan 1985, page 14)	14   1820	yes	2	yes  Both spoke	yes	Join none	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sophronia join the Presbyterian Church - JSH, pages 49-50, 1981 edition; Times & Seasons, March, April 1842; Ensign Jan. 1985, page 14; Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backamn, Bookcraft, 1971, 1980, Appendix C, page 160f
2. Dictated by Smith to F.G. Williams, Summer to Nov. 1832	14 or 15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw Lord, He  "spoke"	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appendix A, page 155f
3. Written by Smith, his 1832 diary, in his own hand	15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw the Lord Jesus  Christ	No question,  told sins forgiven, all do no good	Ensign, Dec. 1984, pages 24-26; ibid, Jan. 1985, page 11
4. Smith's diary of 1835, recorded by Warren Cowdery, Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Smith with Joshua	About  14	yes	One, then another like unto first	?	?  Second spoke, saw  many angels	No questions, told sins forgiven, Jesus is Son	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appen. B
5. Letter form Smith to John Wentworth, editor of Chicago Democrat	none	no	2	?  They spoke	?	No Question	Joseph Smith's  First Vision, Appendix D; Ensign, Jan 1985, page 16; Times & Seasons, Vol  3, pages 706-707, March 1, 1842
6. Early church leaders Brigham Young, G.A.Smith, John Taylor	15	no	1  Saw an angel, and asked the angel	no	no	Join none	See Journal of Discourses,   2:17; 18:239; 13:77, 78; 20:167; 12:333, 334.

 

web/firvista.html 
5-11-95, Rev 8-8-98

 

John Farkas,     Berean Christian Ministries, P.O. Box 1091, Webster, N.Y. 14580

[Gamecock]

***Problem with that approach is that there are 30 thousand plus different Christian sects***

And how many Mormon sectlets are there?

I’ll start the list with the first two that come to mind:

1.LDS
2.fLDS