Posted on 05/26/2008 3:47:41 PM PDT by delacoert
One of the oldest Christian creeds known today is the Apostles’ Creed. The Apostles of the early church didn’t formulate the creed; rather, the Apostles’ Creed, compiled later, is comprised of a brief summary of the Apostles’ teachings. This creed, as well as other Christian creeds, is sometimes recited as a formal statement of belief. The Apostles’ Creed reads, I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, He descended into hell. The third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church, Amen.
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Mormonism is an anti-creedal system of belief. Joseph Smith, Mormonism’s first prophet, began the formulation of his church based on a claimed vision and command from God the Father and Jesus Christ. According to the canonized account of Joseph’s First Vision, when the two Divine Personages appeared to Joseph he asked them which Christian church was correct, which one he should join. Joseph said, “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (Joseph Smith – History 1:19).
An “abomination” is defined in the dictionary as “a thing that causes disgust, hatred or loathing.”
My question is, specifically what teachings in the Apostles’ Creed do Mormons think God finds loathsome or disgusting? Don’t Mormons claim to also believe all the points of the Apostles’ Creed?
LDS author Stephen Robinson says they do. In 1997 he co-wrote a book in which he endeavored to promote a better understanding among evangelicals regarding some key doctrinal issues of Mormonism. Dr. Robinson, then a BYU professor, claimed he was “fairly representative of contemporary LDS orthodoxy. I am not aware of any rift between myself and Joseph Smith, Brigham Young or Gordon B. Hinckley…” Given that, Dr. Robinson’s remark about the Apostles’ Creed was surprising. He said,
“I should probably make exception here for the Apostles’ Creed, which Latter-day Saints could affirm if allowed to define ‘holy catholic church’ as ‘true Christianity,’ as I believe Evangelicals also define it.” (How Wide the Divide, 219, fn. #8)
So help me understand this. According to Mormonism, is the Apostles’ Creed an abomination to God or isn’t it? And if it is, how could–and why would–Latter-day Saints affirm it?
Things that Joseph Smith said and did can be disavowed when considered one by one, but the prophet not rejected.
The "abominal" creed is disavowed altogether, but believed true one step at a time.
IMO, if the precepts of the "abominable" creed can be agreed to one by one, then the sum of the precepts are agreed to.
IMO, if the prophet's words and action are rejected one at a time...
I was taught this creed as a child...
And I still believe it...
Sure. Keep telling yourself that.
I truly wish I would have learned it as a child instead of the 13 Articles of Faith.
*The word “catholic” refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the Christian church of the Lord Jesus Christ as a whole.
Sure. Keep telling yourself that.
________________________________________
Eh ????
I learnt it with the word “catholic” included...
In an Anglican church......
Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.It is not used only in connection with the RC church.2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.
I was rasied Episcopalian and that was in how we said the Creed too.
Yes it was explained to me that the word catholic meant universal...
Sorry, forgot to include you in my comment #7 above.
>IMO, if the prophet’s words and action are rejected one at a time...
... the religious basis for the prophets words becomes hollow. People will become disillusioned and go to another faith, since their church will not even defend the ‘prophetic’ justification of their foundational beliefs.
Everyone should pray for the salvation of those in the Mormon faith, and the exodus of these good people into the real body of Christ, and the true foundation of that body, the Holy Scripture.
I, too, learned it catholic (with a small c) as a Lutheran.
It was actually very interesting to me, since I was baptised Catholic, but switched to Episopalian as an adolescent. So by the time I got used to saying "one holy catholic and apostolic church" I was entirely comfortable with the word "catholic" in both senses.
I think (though I can't find a primary reference at the moment) that the RC Church appropriated the word, meaning "universal" or "all-encompassing", for its name, because it viewed itself at the time as being universal and all-encompassing. Sorta like Microsoft, but with incense and Latin. ;-)
Or maybe I've got it flipped, and the small-c adjective is derived from the RC Church. Gotta find a reference....
"...While certain doctrines are enunciated in the standard works and some doctrinal issues have been addressed in formal pronouncements by the First Presidency, there is nothing in Mormonism comparable to the Westminster Confession of Faith or the Augsberg Confession. Few of the truly distinctive doctrines of Mormonism are discussed in official sources. It is mainly by unofficial means -- Sunday School lessons, seminary, institute, and BYU religion classes, sacrament meeting talks and books by Church officials and others who ultimately speak only for themselves -- that the theology is passed from one generation to the next. Indeed it would seem that a significant part of Mormon theology exists primarily in the minds of the members....the absence of a formal creed means that each generation must produce a new set of gospel expositors to restate and reinterpret the doctrines of Mormonism..."Peter Crawley, writing in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1982
I agree. I'm Catholic, and that is how it was explained to me by the nuns in parochial school.
Here is a new thread by Revelation 911. If any of you requested to be added to the ping list on the thread that got pulled, please FReepmail either Revelation 911 or myself.
Quoted from the new thread: "Unfortunately, our previous nondenominational caucus got deleted for unknown reasons.
To clarify for all... before I get accused of belonging to a denomination, I departed the Free Methodist Church in Sept, where I pastored, and have not yet found a new church.
Unable to participate in any caucus threads, I think there needs to be a place for non denominational Christians
I would like to use this caucus to begin accumulating names for a religion forum ping list, to be used for non denominational articles of interest. It would also be used in the new format of thread designations."
As a matter of note: This earlier thread, on which several FReepers had expressed interest in joining, was crashed by a disruptor who was asked to leave.
Shortly afterwards, the thread was pulled with no explanation.
Add me back in.
Perhaps because mormonism keeps changing what it believes every few years to conform to political norms and societal standards. Gotta keep that living prophet and seer gainfully employed.
Indeed it would seem that a significant part of Mormon theology exists primarily in the minds of the members....the absence of a formal creed means that each generation must produce a new set of gospel expositors to restate and reinterpret the doctrines of Mormonism..." Peter Crawley, writing in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1982
Darn! the rascal even beat me to the point.
Although mormons may get hung up on the whole committee of gods equaling one God, but they say they believe God created the heaven and earth?
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Mormons base their claim to be Christians on worshiping Christ, so they should agree here too.
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
Mormons may have problems with this one, since they say Jesus was conceived by the Father.
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
Don’t the mormons believe this too?
He descended into hell.
They believe this too (Harrowing of Hell)
The third day He arose again from the dead.
Mormons believe this too.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
Mormons may want to include Joseph Smith as the judge, but otherwise from their doctrine they agree with this.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
Well, they believe in something called the Holy Spirit, would probably delete the ‘catholic’ portion and insert theirs, they are called latter day saints and say they believe the rest……
So just what is so abominal if mormons say they believe nearly all of it?
Great question. I'd suggest that, in Mormonism, any doctrine that's expressed in less than perfect terms must be considered abominable to their gods.
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