Why so many LDS threads?

08-May-2008 | Grig

[Grig]

I am posting this on behalf of many LDS freepers. They will post their own 'signature' to this in the comments below. --- Some of you have noticed lately a lot of LDS (ie: Mormon) threads here on FR. I'm going to tell you why.

For many years there have been several active LDS freepers here. We post to all the forums on relevant issues, and were happy to have a site where conservative values were so openly welcomed.

Those conservative values include faith in God, and freedom of religion. We fully respect the rights of all posters to express their opinions and views on religious matters, even when people choose to use those rights to express criticism of our own faith. We also support the ideas embodied in FR rules against religion bashing. There is no need for hostility and there should be no room for bigotry on FR. Every religion has it's miracles and mysteries. Every faith has things in it that are not or can not be proven, and things that run contrary to what secular science would have us believe. Someone mature and confident in their own faith generally doesn't feel the need to belittle the faith of others.

We have, to the best of our ability, conducted ourselves with civility and dignity. We do not feel that that respect has been returned by some posters (putting it mildly).

When Mormon missionaries were murdered, the moderators were kept busy pulling jubilant posts off the thread. When Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her home, we contended for months with posters who appeared to be motivated by religious bigotry doing all they could to smear the family and accuse the father. Several posters openly admitted their religious motivation in opposing Mitt Romney and confessed that no matter how conservative any Mormon was, they would never vote for one for President of the USA. When the Pope died, I don't think any Mormon poster posted anything unkind, yet the thread about the passing of our President recently needed many comments removed.

Nearly every thread having any connection with Mormons, or Utah winds up being hijacked by anti-Mormon activists who copy and paste the same false accusations over and over even when it has been clearly and factually pointed out to them on multiple occasions that they are bearing false witness against our faith. Everything possible is done by these activists to make FR a hostile place for Mormons, and for at least some of them, bashing Mormonism is all they do here. Their most recent project is trying to blur the fact that the polygamous FLDS is a separate and distinct religion from ours, just as Lutherans are a separate and distinct religion from Catholicism.

In our opinion, such poster do a great disservice to FR and to their fellow freepers by spreading disinformation and promoting hostility towards a people known for walking the walk of conservative values.

Why the moderators here don't see the behavior of these anti-Mormon activists as religion bashing is a mystery to us, but it is the moderators call to make and we respect their right to do so. That doesn't mean we have to be passive however. We have all spent many hours refuting the accusations leveled at our faith, but these wind up buried deep in a flood of comments, effectively shouting us down.

Recently some of us have decided to take a more proactive approach. Rather than try to wrestle the pig into taking a bath, we are just going to hose it down. We will actively define our faith here rather than just respond to accusations.

So expect to see lots of Mormon threads, now and for as long as we see fit to keep posting them (although probably not as many as there are Catholic threads). They will be about our basic doctrines and responses to common accusations. If you want to know what our faith is about, read the articles we post. We will post them as open threads and I encourage you to compare the difference in tone and spirit between what we post and what our critics say.

[Elsie]

Most false teachers do not teach people to pray bout their words.

The False teachers of the LDS Organization® do.

(No slander intended.)

[Elsie]

I know that the Clown posse will try to make it that, good luck twisting the English language, you'll need it.

Another BYU course?

---

 

Mormon versus Christian definitions

 

Word...	Mormon	Christian
Atonement	(1) Used almost exclusively as a reference to Jesus' conquering physical death for all people.  By conquering physical death, Jesus made it possible for all people to enter again into the presence of Heavenly Father - if for no other reason than to be judged by him.  In other words, they are again 'at-one' with him (atoned).  This will happen at Judgment Day.  Those who have earned it will live in the Celestial Kingdom with Heavenly Father.  Everyone else will live outside of the presence of Heavenly Father.  (2) At times atonement includes the thought of Jesus' paying for people's sins.  But underlying all such references is the thought that they have to pay him back.  For a good example of the LDS view of Jesus' atoning work, see Gospel Principles chapter 12.	Jesus' complete payment, made once, for all the sins of all the people of the entire world.  Hebrews 7:27: Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.  1 Peter 3:18:  For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.  Through faith in Jesus' payment, we are given eternal life in heaven.
Bible	One of four books Mormons consider scripture. They believe it to be the Word of God "as far as it is translated correctly" (Eighth Article of Faith).  They believe many precious parts have been lost from it (1 Nephi 13:28).  Consequently they consider it the least reliable of the scriptures.  Many Mormons are not familiar with it.	The inspired, complete and inerrant Word of God.
Damnation	Mormon's Plan of Salvation outlines an intricate process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation).  Anything that stops a person in their progression, such as dying without having a celestial marriage, is considered damnation as it blocks or dams their progression.	The consequence of unbelief.  Unbelief results in damnation, that is, suffering eternal punishment in hell.
Eternal Life (Exaltation)	Living eternally as a god, synonymous with godhood and exaltation.  "Exaltation means the same thing as eternal life" (Learn of Me, p. 72).  Eternal life  is reserved for those who attain the highest level of the celestial kingdom.  Mormons must become perfect, have received their endowment, and been married in the temple (Celestial Marriage) before they can earn eternal life.  This eternal life will be lived both with Heavenly Father in the celestial kingdom and as god over their own world which they will populate with their own children.	By faith in Jesus' payment for our sins, we are given the gift of eternal life living with God in heaven as his children.
Faith	(1)  The belief that God exists and has given a good plan of salvation (Mormonism).  (2) The power God gives Mormons whereby they can resist sin and become perfect. "But he must believe the truth, obey the truth, and practice the truth, to obtain the power of God called faith" (Past Living Prophet and President Brigham Young quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church Brigham Young p. 56).  The more righteous a person is, the more power (faith) God will give him.  "To those who have not begun the quest of comprehension, the word faith appears to be only a synonym for a kind of belief or conviction....It is a principle of power" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 82).	The sure hope of our deliverance from death to eternal life in heaven.  Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Forgiveness	Must be earned through what may be "weeks, years, or centuries" of effort. To be forgiven of a sin, one must meet the demands of the LDS definition of repentance for that sin. God 'remembers' the original sin and you lose your forgiveness if you recommit the sin.	The undeserved gift of having your sins separated from you "as far as the east is from the west". Because Jesus paid our penalty as our substitute, we are considered guiltless by God. God does not remember our sins.
Gift	Mormonism has expanded the definition of the term 'gift'.  The expanded definition includes as 'gifts' things which are rewarded to an individual only after first completing certain requirements or first demonstrating sufficient worthiness.  The expanded definition also includes as 'gifts' things which once received, obligate the receiver to a set of conditions; which, if broken revoke the 'gift'.  Most 'gifts' in Mormonism actually fall under the expanded part of the Mormon definition (eternal life, grace, forgiveness, the help of the Holy Ghost, most of God's many blessings).  Mormon doctrine goes so far as to say that God is 'obligated' to give a particular 'gift' once the prescribed prerequisites have been achieved by the receiver of the gift.   Most of the 'gifts' of Mormonism are not gifts but rewards, compensation, obligatory payments, and contracts.	A gift is something we receive which is undeserved, unearned, offered freely by the bestower.
Gospel	A term that refers to Mormonism in general.  Or in particular, Mormonism's intricate plan of salvation.  "Mormonism so-called - which actually is the gospel of Christ, restored anew this day" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 176).	The "Good News" of free and full salvation (eternal life with God in heaven) won for mankind by Jesus Christ.
Grace	The power God gives people to save themselves, conditional on their earning it by doing all they can do on their own.  "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).  "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23).  This grace does not directly provide them with eternal life, but rather with the power to make up the difference between "all they can do" and perfection.	The unconditional, free gift of eternal life given us through faith in Jesus' saving work.  Ephesians 2:8-9:  For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Heaven	Any of the three kingdoms Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial.  Life even on the lowest kingdom will be much better than earth, and even the vilest of unbelievers will receive a life in heaven.   "The book (Doctrine and Covenants) explains clearly that the lowest glory to which man is assigned is so glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man.  It is a doctrine fundamental in Mormonism that the meanest sinner, in the final judgment, will receive a glory which is beyond human understanding, which is go great that we are unable to describe it adequately." (John A. Widtsoe, quoted in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 166).  Yet, even in the highest kingdom all but those who have earned exaltation will have less than complete happiness.  "How lonely and barren will be the so-called single blessedness throughout eternity!" (Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 19).	God's glorious home, where all who believed in Jesus' saving work will live forever happy with him.  Revelations 21:3-4:  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.".
Hell	(1) Not a place of eternal punishment but the temporary state of suffering wicked spirits experience in spirit prison before Judgment Day.  "That part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked spirits who are awaiting the eventual day of resurrection is called hell....Hell will have an end" (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 165).  (2)  The regret the inhabitants of the lower kingdoms will experience as they see the glories of the celestial kingdom is described in Mormon literature as a kind of hell.  (3) Mormons call Satan's domain Outer Darkness.  Only those who leave the LDS church are sent to Outer Darkness.	Satan's domain of unending torment.  Mark 9:47-48: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’  All unbelievers will be cast into hell.  Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Justification	Unfamiliar term to most Mormons.  Mormonism describes it as God's strict confirmation of the merits or demerits of man's own actions.  In other words, LDS justification is God's act of rewarding people on their own actions, rewarding right and punishing wrong.	God declares us (believers) not guilty on the basis of Christ's atoning work.
Paid - As in "Jesus paid for my sins".	Mormonism uses the word 'paid' as a synonym for 'refinanced'.  When a Mormon says "Jesus paid for my sins", he does not mean that he no longer owes the debt of sin, merely that the creditor and the terms have changed.  The entire debt still remains to be paid!	When a Christian says "Jesus paid for my sins", he means that his entire payment for all his sins has been made, no more debt remains, no further payment is due or could even be made.
Repentance	"It is a long road spiked with thorns and briars and pitfalls and problems" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness quoted in Gospel Principles, page 123. The Mormon definition includes:   1) sorrow for your sins.   2) abandoning [never again committing] each and every sin.   3) confessing each sin.   4) restitution, as far as it is possible, for every sin ever committed.   5) freely forgive anyone who ever sinned against you.   6) obedience to all of God's other commands [in essence - perfection].   7) perform works to make up for the sin.   8) there can be no repentance without punishment.   9) you will not even desire to commit the sin again! Points 1-7 referenced in Gospel Principles, pages 124-125.  Point 8 referenced in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, page 224.  Point 9 referenced in Missionary Discussions, page 2-14 / Study Guide 2, page 3. From Teachings of the Presidents of the Church Joseph F. Smith: True repentance is not only sorrow for sins, and humble penitence and contrition before God, but it involves the necessity of turning away from them, a discontinuance of all evil practices and deeds, a thorough reformation of life, a vital change from evil to good, from vice to virtue, from darkness to light.  Not only so, but to make restitution, so far as it is possible, for all the wrongs we have done, to pay our debts, and restore to God and man their rights - that which is due to them from us.	Literally, a change of mind.  A turning of one's heart from trust in yourself and your works to trust in Jesus and his work for you.  Such a change of heart will result in sorrow for one's sins and a humble attitude of following God's will.
Redemption	Synonymous with atonement.	Christ bought all mankind back (redeemed) from the wages of our sin.  See atonement.
Salvation	(1)  For most Mormons this is equivalent to physical resurrection, the reuniting of body and soul on Judgment Day.  This is the only free gift in Mormonism.  This is why many can say they believe they are saved by Jesus alone.  They mean that they believe they don't have to do anything to be resurrected.  However, this salvation does not grant eternal life (exaltation).  That is based on their successful completion of their plan of salvation.  Mormonism states that if one makes no effort and is an unbeliever he / she will still be resurrected and assigned a place in the lowest kingdom.  Therefore, a Mormon can say that a person is granted heaven solely on Jesus' atoning work.  And that person need not even believe in Jesus to attain it.  (2)  Sometimes 'salvation' is used as a synonym for exaltation, as in "Plan of Salvation" (actually the plan of exaltation).	The free gift of eternal life in heaven with God given us through faith in Jesus' saving work.
Sanctification	A term not commonly used in Mormonism.  They use it to refer to a state of saintliness which is obtained as people purify themselves by overcoming sin.	(1)  Believers in Jesus' saving work are considered saints by God (sanctified).  This refers to our status as citizens of heaven, while living on earth.  (2)  While on earth, the continuing work of the Holy Spirit resulting in the strengthening of our faith and becoming increasingly Christ-like (holy).  (3)  The final change that occurs on Judgment Day where believers are forever separated from their sinful nature and are thereby made holy.
Sin	A word not commonly used by Mormons since Mormonism has a weak view of sin.  "But all of us are guilty of sin to some degree" (Gospel Principles, p. 117).  Instead of talking about sin, they use words such as bad habits, infractions, mistakes, and poor judgments.	Any violation of God's commands, whether in thought, word, or deed.  Includes any and all trespass, transgression, iniquity, wickedness, etc.  Includes sins of omission (not doing what we are commanded) as well as commission (doing what we are commanded not to do).
Plan of Salvation	In general, Mormonism.   Specifically, an intricate plan outlining a process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation).  Steps in this process include becoming perfect, temple endowment, and celestial marriage.  All the laws and ordinances of Mormonism embody the plan.	God's plan of sacrificing his perfect son so that all who believe in him are saved (given eternal life).  John 3:14-17:  Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

[MHGinTN]

I wonder, does the poster realize that Moslems pray, that Hindus pray, that ... oh, never mind. A closed mind is dangerous to open because anything could get poured in to fill the void created by mormonism.

[Elsie]

Actually it's not a good color with my skin tone.

(You KNEW it was coming:)

"White and delightsome"?

[Elsie]

Stating opinion as fact again?

Fact.

[Elsie]

I can and have in the past found similar statements in every religion that I have bothered to check, and yes, I have been damned to hell specifically and personally in a baptist meeting.

Can't say you've not been warned.

[Elsie]

Paul said anyone who changed the Gospel of an eternal inheritance with Christ as the reward for faithfulness, they would be accursed,

 Paul said that anyone who denied that Christ was an heir of God would be accursed.

 

 

 

Not in THESE verses!!!

 

 

Galations 1:6-10

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 So just WHERE in the Bible did he DO what you claim?

[Elsie]

Except I'm not here to bash them, you are here to bash us, and unfortunately for you, I'm not here to bash, but to teach and testify...

Your testifyin' works great, but you REALLY need work on your teaching.

[Elsie]

Y2K of the Beast

[DelphiUser]

U Said: You have it exactly opposite of reality,

That is your perspective, I dare you to state that your perception of reality is reality and not your perception.

U Said: the words are compared to the standard of the Bible - just like the Bereans.

There was no "Standard Bible" when Paul was teaching the Breans...

U Said: Paul didn't tell them to 'pray' about their teachings, they compared them to the scripture.

you mean the Torah?

U Said: False teachers try to get people's eyes off the scripture and on to a substitute - such as a subjective 'burning' feeling.

I have encouraged all to read the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I encourage everyone to pray about Both. But, it's not about the Bible, it's about God. Don't take your eyes off of God to study the Bible by your own wisdom, always, always keep God in your loop or you are just fooling your self about believing in him.

When have I ever talked about looking for a "burner" as you derisively call them? I don't because that is not how My witness came.

Again, 100% backwards...

[DelphiUser]

I Said: Eternal peril can be interpreted as HELL, however, I did not damn you to "ETERNAL PERIL".

U Said: Editing your responses again. Come on DU, define your terms - what else does ETERNAL PERIL mean in the context but hell.

Damning someone to hell is a "done deal" the decision has been made, thanks for playing, Game over, etc.

Eternal PERIL means you are in danger, but it's not over, there is still time to pull it out, Repent MAN!

They may be the same thing to you, they are not to me and I did not mean them to be the same thing, you are were and about me so far always have been 100% wrong.

U Said: ANYONE WHO DENIES MY WITNESS DOES SO AT HIS OR HER ETERNAL PERIL You said ANYONE WHO DENIES MY WITNESS DU, it is your personalized, subjective witness - therefore YOU are declaring that whoever denies that they are condemned to hell. YOU are not associating it with anyone other than YOU and your witness. If you are not desiring to make such statements, you should not post these statements in this manner.

I had just testified of Jesus Christ. Anyone who denies a witness of Jesus Christ whether that witness is by me or you or Nana, or Whoever, just put themselves in ETERNAL PERIL. You can take that to the bank.

U Said: know that the Clown posse will try to make it that, good luck twisting the English language, you'll need it.

U Said: Oh, resorting to name calling - I thought you explicitly told me that you didn't do such things. A very clintonesque response too - first you twist the english language, then you accuse your opponent of the same prior to their response.

I don't, I thought Clown posse, flying imams, and "The Posse" were all accepted variants used for anti's here, I've seen anti's use those when referring to the group, I'll strike "Clown Posse", even though it seems very appropriate...

Twisting the English language? LOL! I'm the one who keeps linking to an online dictionary, remember me?

[DelphiUser]

I Said: So we have an anti site with an anti guy talking about what he obviously does not understand

U Said: Actually, he knows exactly what he is talking about.

Anyone who thinks that you can ordain someone to an office in the priesthood and not have or be talking about the priesthood is either mistaken or lying, I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt...

U Said: You are wrong (yet) again DU.

I stand by my statement, he doesn't know what he is talking about, he may have at one time, but he has forgotten, either that, or he is a liar, and I don't want to call him that, lying takes intent.

[DelphiUser]

So just WHERE in the Bible did he DO what you claim?

Elsie, Elsie, Elsie, I quoted from Galations, it's the same book written by the same Paul, therefore it's the same Gospel.

Galations 4:3-7

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

This is the Gospel Paul taught to the Galations, this is the Gospel Paul said:
Galations 1:6-10

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Paul said anyone who changed the Gospel of an eternal inheritance with Christ as the reward for faithfulness, they would be accursed, Paul said that anyone who denied that Christ was an heir of God would be accursed. The Trinity denies these things. The Trinity denies that Jesus is the son by making him God. The Trinity denies that we can be Jiont-Heirs with Jesus Christ, which is at the very heart of the Gospel.

I hope you will read glations very carefully tonight, all of it, not just the parts you find in Anti books.

[DelphiUser]

(No slander intended.)

None sticking...

[SkyPilot]

I stand by my statement, he doesn't know what he is talking about

I know - that is why you appear so foolish here.

[SkyPilot]

By the way, I love this part:

he doesn't know what he is talking about, he may have at one time, he may have at one time, but he has forgotten

Soooo....when he was LDS and "served a mission in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. He married his wife, Mary, in the Los Angeles Temple. They are both graduates of Brigham Young University. While a member of the LDS Church, Shawn served as a home teacher, elder's quorum president, seminary teacher and a member of a Bishopric and Stake High Council." .....he "knew what he was talking about according to you, but when he changed his life for Christ and did this...."Shawn asked to be excommunicated from the LDS Church due to his personal relationship with Jesus Christ." - he "forgot" the truth about the LDS church, or he is a "liar."

THAT is a new low for even you.

Congrats.

[MHGinTN]

A new low?... For a ‘melchizadek priest’? It’s hate speech in mormonism disguise don’tchaknow.

[MHGinTN]

Incidentally, there is only ONE Melchizadek Priest now, Christ The Lord. The ‘melchizadek priesthood’ in mormonism is a farcical sham invented by the same conman who tried making a living as a peepstone divination for buried treasure scam artist but found pretending at prophet was a better scam ... and the scam continues.

[greyfoxx39]

I had just testified of Jesus Christ. Anyone who denies a witness of Jesus Christ whether that witness is by me or you or Nana, or Whoever, just put themselves in ETERNAL PERIL. You can take that to the bank.

DO YOU MEAN LIKE THIS CHALLENGE OF MY TESTIMONY BY YOU, DU?

(My words in red)

To: greyfoxx39; FastCoyote

You said: Response to 1193: As DU puts it so gracefully, "I am calling you out, start asking others to read and pray so they can duplicate your "Negative answer" experience or admit that you didn't have one.

Put up or shut up time.

You said: I have posted here before that after much study, prayer and fasting, I received a message from the Holy Spirit that the Book of Mormon was not a message from God, that Joseph Smith's "revelation" was not from the spirit of God, and that Christ is the Savior of mankind. That Christ is with me always, and that HE is the only way to salvation through HIS grace, not through empty works or rituals.

I could go the route of some on this forum, and tell you that your message was from the devil appearing as an angel of light, or I could tell you that Satan answered your prayers (you see, I have been told both of those things by anti's), But I do not believe nor have I ever found scriptural support for Satan answering a prayer to God, instead of God.

Instead, I am just asking how did you receive a negative answer? Much fun has been made here by anti's, FC even makes jokes about a burning in his colon, trying to tick us off or some such.

I'm asking you again, how exactly did you receive your negative message?

What exactly were you asking God in your prayer?

What exactly were your preparations for an answer from on high?

Please understand I am not trying to tear you down, but your actions are not consistent with your words here and I as an analyst must either conclude that you have left something vital out of your report, or you have falsified it in some way. I do not like to think that my Christian brethren would lie about something so important to the salvation of the soul, so I ask for more information to help me and any Lurkers to rectify the apparent contradictions of your story with your actions.

This is MY testimony to all.

I invite all Christians to praise Him here, but I don't believe it necessary to "defend" your faith against a challenge from those who are mislead. If any care to take up the challenge of reading the Book of Mormon and asking God its truth, please do so. But be aware that if you receive a message that it is NOT true, you will be told by Mormons that YOU failed in some way.

If your goal is to receive and answer, and you do not, have you not failed?

IF my Goal was to read the Bible and know that Jesus is God, and I stop reading before I finish and don't receive that knowledge, have I not failed?

If you get an answer positive, or negative, you have achieved something remarkable, and it should change your life. I wold expect (logically) that an answer from God as promised in the bible, would change that activities of any who receive it. The truths in the Bible have IMHO changed the course of history for the better. I believe those changes came because God testified of his truth to men and they acted accordingly. I also believe that God testifies of the Book of Mormon. It is that dual testimony from God that motivates me, I believe anyone who receives a testimony from God to any truth will never be the same as they were before they received that testimony.

This is why I challenged you, for if you have truly received an answer from God, you would be encouraging others to go and get that answer, and I have seen no evidence of that on this forum. your words are not consistent with your actions as I have observed human behavior to be when impacted by a revelation. So, either start acting right, or explain, or I will keep asking.

Let me make this clear, I am not trying to browbeat you, I just want to understand, and curiosity is also a powerful motivator for me.

posted on 11/28/2007 9:05:57 AM MST by ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1925641/replies?c=1204

 

 

[greyfoxx39]

Live link for above post at 2679