Why so many LDS threads?

08-May-2008 | Grig

[Grig]

I am posting this on behalf of many LDS freepers. They will post their own 'signature' to this in the comments below. --- Some of you have noticed lately a lot of LDS (ie: Mormon) threads here on FR. I'm going to tell you why.

For many years there have been several active LDS freepers here. We post to all the forums on relevant issues, and were happy to have a site where conservative values were so openly welcomed.

Those conservative values include faith in God, and freedom of religion. We fully respect the rights of all posters to express their opinions and views on religious matters, even when people choose to use those rights to express criticism of our own faith. We also support the ideas embodied in FR rules against religion bashing. There is no need for hostility and there should be no room for bigotry on FR. Every religion has it's miracles and mysteries. Every faith has things in it that are not or can not be proven, and things that run contrary to what secular science would have us believe. Someone mature and confident in their own faith generally doesn't feel the need to belittle the faith of others.

We have, to the best of our ability, conducted ourselves with civility and dignity. We do not feel that that respect has been returned by some posters (putting it mildly).

When Mormon missionaries were murdered, the moderators were kept busy pulling jubilant posts off the thread. When Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her home, we contended for months with posters who appeared to be motivated by religious bigotry doing all they could to smear the family and accuse the father. Several posters openly admitted their religious motivation in opposing Mitt Romney and confessed that no matter how conservative any Mormon was, they would never vote for one for President of the USA. When the Pope died, I don't think any Mormon poster posted anything unkind, yet the thread about the passing of our President recently needed many comments removed.

Nearly every thread having any connection with Mormons, or Utah winds up being hijacked by anti-Mormon activists who copy and paste the same false accusations over and over even when it has been clearly and factually pointed out to them on multiple occasions that they are bearing false witness against our faith. Everything possible is done by these activists to make FR a hostile place for Mormons, and for at least some of them, bashing Mormonism is all they do here. Their most recent project is trying to blur the fact that the polygamous FLDS is a separate and distinct religion from ours, just as Lutherans are a separate and distinct religion from Catholicism.

In our opinion, such poster do a great disservice to FR and to their fellow freepers by spreading disinformation and promoting hostility towards a people known for walking the walk of conservative values.

Why the moderators here don't see the behavior of these anti-Mormon activists as religion bashing is a mystery to us, but it is the moderators call to make and we respect their right to do so. That doesn't mean we have to be passive however. We have all spent many hours refuting the accusations leveled at our faith, but these wind up buried deep in a flood of comments, effectively shouting us down.

Recently some of us have decided to take a more proactive approach. Rather than try to wrestle the pig into taking a bath, we are just going to hose it down. We will actively define our faith here rather than just respond to accusations.

So expect to see lots of Mormon threads, now and for as long as we see fit to keep posting them (although probably not as many as there are Catholic threads). They will be about our basic doctrines and responses to common accusations. If you want to know what our faith is about, read the articles we post. We will post them as open threads and I encourage you to compare the difference in tone and spirit between what we post and what our critics say.

[Elsie]

Anecdotal evidence,

Do I really have to post the meaning of the word: OXYMORON?

[Elsie]

Here, let me make it easy for you...

Here you go!!

(Pictures; too!)

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KJV 1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

KJV 1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

 

 KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

KJV 2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

 

KJV 2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

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NIV Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
 7.  which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
 9.  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

 

 

ANYBODY???

 

Like this fine looking fellow???

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Like THESE guys??

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

 

 

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Ephesians 2:1-2

   As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,  in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

[Elsie]

So now you accuse the bible as being untruthful.

OH well; so did your glorious founder.

[Godzilla]

He's big (even bigger than my posts), He's bad (He has called me names a few times), he's mean (he has never apologized or admitted that he was wrong even when proven so), He breaths fire, OK well not actual fire... (just having fun with the name...)

I believe Godzilla is antiquated, his views are steeped in tradition, and his methods do not take into account new findings, or modern methodology he is stuck on information being peer reviewed and not just whether or not it is true (the Bible was not peer reviewed... a peer review does not make something true, ask the flat earth society, they have peers who review their stuff). From my perspective, he denies the word of God in favor of the doctrines of men for money.

Hi DU, you must be talking about yourself in the first paragraph (with the exception of the fire issue). So the next time I’ll remember to bring you some cheese to go with that whine. You are wrong on every count – except for the name calling – I guess the term Fluffy is incredibly heinous in comparison to what I’ve been called here by mormons.

New findings…… like the Los Lunas stone – rejected even by mormon investigators. You really don’t understand the meaning of peer review either do you? Flat earthers research would not (and does not) stand up to peer review – that is why they are ridiculed, like similar groups who tout foolishness. Modern methodologies like this one:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/caribbean/sfl-flaearlyamerican0509sbmay09,0,5490437.story?track=rss

Or the mountain of dna and related evidence showing native American descent from Mongloid stock, not Semetic. Answers to FARMS/FAIR drivel are found below:

http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/Losing2.htm

Infact mormon apologists have pretty much torn themselves up trying to explain or write off the results of research, divided up into Hemispheric Geographists, Limited Geographists, North American Geographists and Alternative Geographists. Why all the theory – because there is no evidence that the BOM is true and the at the peoples listed were ever here to begin with. More grins and giggles reading how they stumble over themselves here:

http://www.signaturebooks.com/dna.htm

Even your favorite cite – wilki – disses you:

Since the late 1990s and the pioneering work of Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza and others, scientists have developed techniques that attempt to use genetic markers to indicate the ethnic background and history of individual people. The consensus view is that the Native Americans have very distinctive DNA markers, and that they are most similar, among old world populations, to the DNA of people anciently associated with the Altay Mountains area of central Asia, near the intersections of Russia, China, Mongolia, and Kazakhstan. There is little significant support outside the LDS for the hypothesis that these peoples originated as migrants from the Middle East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

Is this recent and modern enough for you DU, or are you stuck in the traditions of a man?

How about modern Egyptology and the BOA scroll (aka Book of Breathing). Do you really want to explore tradition v modern discoveries and research on this subject?

Traditions – nah, I’m not stuck on them DU, the one stuck is looking at you in your mirror :)

Since it appears you haven’t made it to post 1190 in your responses, my profile has been on line for 4 years available for all to look at. That is hardly hiding it. But it has brought me numerous grins and giggles at how you attempt to slander me by calling me a paid theologian. I await your apology

[Godzilla]

You see, translation error n the inerrant bible, known only to scholars lest the people get nervous about their perfect bible and actually start asking God questions
The truth is a pesky thing... if you aren't in touch with it.

Which translation is the following found?

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.

From the JST. The Prophet's inspired translation retains the Johannine Comma as valid. Only a false prophet creates a false translation - truth is pesky isn't it DU.

[colorcountry]

Ka-CHING!

We have a knock out! Godzilla in round one.

[colorcountry]

He Said: BTW, no Mormon would ever be listed as “Clergy” we don’t have that office.

U said: Big Deal.

I say: Does the IRS have a category for “Prophets.” LOL....

I would assume that the “Profit” (pun intended) would be categorized as ‘clergy’ by the IRS. And they really don’t care if YOU call him that or not.

[Godzilla]

I would assume that the “Profit” (pun intended) would be categorized as ‘clergy’ by the IRS. And they really don’t care if YOU call him that or not.

Given their track record with polygamy, blacks, BOA, Kinderhook Plates, Greek Psalter,and the Hoffman Letters, I suspect that the IRS would classify the mormon church as

A non-prophet organization.

[colorcountry]

You are on a roll.

[SkyPilot]

Your group’s ARROGANCE reminds me of ...

Well, good thing we have this wonderful new Religion Forum Guidelines – Ecumenism thingy.

I think Liberals, Homosexuals, and Communists should come on Free Republic too and complain enough by hitting the ABUSE button every 5 minutes.

They will be successful in creating some weird new notion where we can sort of debate, but not really, if I feel I am "offended" - and I can't be made to feel blue....so don't bring up what I really said.....but you might be able to sort of, kind of....talk around what I posted, but only on every third Tuesday.

[Colofornian]

I believe Godzilla is antiquated, his views are steeped in tradition, and his methods do not take into account new findings, or modern methodology... [DU]

(Oh, you mean "antiquated" notions like DelphiUser's defense of ancient practices instigated & rooted in the person of Lamech, the initial polygamist who was a violent Cainite? You mean DelphiUser's defense of ancient pagan customs like polygamy largely passed down thru the pagan custom of ancient Mesopotamia?)

You don't mean to say that DelphiUser never could shed the skin of polygamous traditions of which scatter across his heritage, do you? Do you mean to say his method of reading history backwards, from front to back, revisionist style, sought to impose "new findings" on the institution of marriage? All when the Old Testament made it quite clear that the Israelites viewed monogamy as the most acceptable form of marriage -- stated openly in Deut. 17:17 & Gen. 2:24 + implied by Hebrew laws in Ex. 20:17; 21:5; Lev. 18:8,16-20; 20:10; Num. 5:12; Deut. 5:21???...and a practice, BTW, that New Testament Christians practiced as "THE" standard: 1 Tim. 3:2,12; Titus 1:5-7; 1 Cor. 7:2; Matt. 19; Gen. 2:23-25; Deut. 17:17; Lev. 18:18???

Why would he embrace an institution that was never New Testament Christianity if he was a true-blue restorationist? I guess that's what happens when you're "steeped in religious tradition."

[Colofornian]

They will be successful in creating some weird new notion where we can sort of debate, but not really, if I feel I am "offended" - and I can't be made to feel blue....so don't bring up what I really said.....but you might be able to sort of, kind of....talk around what I posted, but only on every third Tuesday... (if you give the right handshake signal and/or masonic signs, that is, and if you're properly garbed)

[greyfoxx39]

They will be successful in creating some weird new notion where we can sort of debate, but not really, if I feel I am "offended" - and I can't be made to feel blue....so don't bring up what I really said.....but you might be able to sort of, kind of....talk around what I posted, but only on every third Tuesday.

What is the term I'm looking for, for these whiners.....PHYRRIC VICTORY!...OPEN threads are gonna get interesting.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: See, right there you assert some thing that is not so, it's credibility comes from God or not at all, If Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, it'd already be in the dustbin of history, but here we are discussing it still...

U Said: Using the standard of man to defend Joey? There are a lot of cults out there that continue to exist because there are people who are foolish/brain washed enough to follow them. There are people that still believe the earth is flat.

Standard of man? Hardly. I notice you keep bringing up the flat earthers, are you one of them?

I Said: (you go on to slander a good man, but it's wasted breath because your premise is flawed, right along with your "facts" on Joseph Smith. I hope men are kinder to your memory then you have been to Joseph's

I Said: Just because you wish my premise to be flawed doesn’t make it so. I can / have documented every portion of my claims in the past here. Poor Joey, the voice of history isn’t kind – only truthful.

Your premise which you conveniently cut off from the Quote was "If you are claiming the bom to be that second witness, then it first stands and falls upon the credibility of the writer – Joseph Smith" Your premise that the writer is the only support is flawed, and is the "Standard of man" that you accuse me of using.

There is of course the work itself, testimonies of others, and in the case of something that purports to be scripture, God's testimony of lack thereof.

Please explain how Joseph a boy with three years of education wrote this huge book with systems of government, systems of weights and measures, societies, and geography from the Middle east that he could not have known all accurately portrayed, and never made a mistake in one pass, this being his first such work. Experienced writers cannot do that easily, or at all.

How could Joseph possibly have known the route from Jerusalem to Naholm to Bountiful and portrayed it so accurately that we can follow the trail today and find the only place on the coast that meets with the description of Bountiful? indeed, the Valley, the wadi that flows year round, how?

How could he have known to put Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon?

How could he have known that now they would begin to find Jewish and Other Semitic Texts Written in Egyptian Characters?

How could he have known that in the modern day we would find the Ten Commandments in america written in a form of Hebrew no one in his day could read?

How could he have known there would be other stones with ancient Hebrew on them, again this form of Hebrew which nobody knew how to read or write?

How did he know they would start finding records inscribed on metal plates, in his day it was unheard of.

How did he know that it is now common to find along with the book of breathings other scriptural works buried with mummies? no one knew it back then.

How did Joseph smith a backwoods boy from America, with a total of three years of education drain the swamps at Nauvoo, build houses and roads that were a marvel of his day and design and construct temples that were beyond the engineering of his day? how?

Joseph is long gone, how come millions have read his Book of Mormon translation and prayed to God to see if it was his word and received an emphatic YES direct from God?

Your answers to date have been to say it was Satan, or a trick, or it's not peer reviewed, you have not answered the questions, you have dodged them.

You are an artful dodger, but that does not mean dodges will work, you dismiss with equal art to your dodging, but you don't answer.

The Book of Mormon does not rest upon Joseph Smith only, any more than the Gospel of God rested upon Jesus Christ the man.

The man Jesus Christ was vilified, arrested illegally, tried illegally, beaten publicly, and murdered on a cross between two thieves. The Sanhedrin thought they had defeated him utterly.

Three days later, they discovered to their horror that he had defeated them and Satan their master completely.

Joseph is cast from the same mold, he has been lied about more than any other man in history, he was arrested illegally, beaten publicly, tarred and fathered, people tried to force acid into his mouth to kill him, eventually, betrayed again to the mobs in Carthage, not even tried, he was attacked with an overwhelming force and shot propped up against a well and shot repeatedly by men who's faces were concealed and who had taken a blood oath not to reveal who their co-murderers were. These men thought the church would die without Joseph to lead it. They were wrong, God is not so easily defeated, Joseph had even prophesied his own death, and this stone has been rolling forth to fill the whole earth ever since.

Your premise is a flawed premise that a man is the measure of his works, the reverse is true. The works of a man are his measure. and Joseph's works are great indeed.

I'll respond to the rest of your monster post later when I have time...

[Marysecretary]

OH, well, I guess that explains it, LOL.

[SkyPilot]

What is the term I'm looking for, for these whiners.....PHYRRIC VICTORY!...OPEN threads are gonna get interesting.

We Won!

[prayforpeaceofJerusalem]

No. Created light has darkness intertwined in it -I have to find the scientific article I once read on that.

“God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all”.
IN 1 Enoch The Son of Man was seen in heaven, hidden, who was with God and who was God. In Gensis Adam was made in His very image/similitude, as Genesis 1:26-28 and also Romans 5:14 state. There is only One Image of the Unseen, triune God, and that One image “Seen” is God the Word, and the Word is now come in human flesh as Kinsman/Redeemer to all in Adam [to whosoever will, that is].

All over Genesis the Hebrew word “ga’al” is used to speak of YHWH, and He also uses it to speak of Himself. That word is translated “Redeemer” and “Kinsman”, both, and YHWH was always to come as Kinsman to Adam, and Adam was made in his image that was to come [Romans 5:14].
The only way God is ever to be seen in the past or future is in the face of Jesus Christ, who was always God, always with God, and is God the Word.

Enoch saw Him in heaven, in a vision, and described Him as the Great Glory who is that unapproachable Light, of whom Paul spoke; and the mystery Enoch saw there was the hidden in God Son of Man, who was “secret”, whose “name was secret”, who was to come, and who was not only with God but who was God, and who was “from the beginning”.
John says He is Jesus, now come in flesh.
Jesus acknowledged that He was the Son of Man in heaven, now come down, seen and described only by Enoch. Enoch also said that he was the only one who was given to see that.

The only way to describe the Person of Christ pre-incarnation, as seen by Enoch as the hidden One who was to come, is that He was seen as the “alter ego” =another same self- of the Great Glory, who is the unapproachable Light whom no creature can look upon, and who Himself is not the Unseen Father, for the Father can no created being see.

In Revelation John saw Him as the Lamb that was slain and resurrected, and who was -again- an alter ego =another same self- of the One who sits on the throne. In the end of Revelation the Lamb and God have one face, one throne. In Enoch they are “One”, and the face is hidden, until Jesus is come in flesh.

In Genesis He is called the “Voice of the Presence/Face” of YHWH, when He walks in the garden, pre-incarnation.

Enoch sees Him as the son of Man who was to come, and John sees Him as the Lamb who was come and was slain and who is God the word, in flesh.
Enoch saw Him as not just the “Word of God”, but as the very “Oath of God” who created and upholds all creation.

The entire creation account is about all that is in creation, in the heavens and the earth. In six days He created heaven and earth and all that in them is, including the host of heaven, which is described as all the heavenly bodies and all the heavenly angelic beings.
Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is]...

Enoch’s vision of the Great Glory, whom “no creature can see”

Enoch 14 http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM

And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ‘ Come hither, 25 Enoch, and hear my word.’ And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

Enoch sees the alter Ego -another same self- Christ who was to come as the Kinsman:
46 [Chapter 46]

1 And there I saw One who had a head of days,

And His head was white like wool,

And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man,

And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.

2 And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that

3 Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me:

This is the son of Man who hath righteousness,

With whom dwelleth righteousness,
…

[Tennessee Nana]

I believe Godzilla is antiquated
________________________________________

I do too...

Godzilla is made in the image of God...

God is also called antiquated...

The Ancient of Days..Daniel 7:9, 13, 22

[MHGinTN]

It is curious that the lds apologists can ‘make it personal’ and be ignored by the mods, but don’t you dare make such a personal comment about one of the protected species.

[Tennessee Nana]

Please explain how Joseph a boy with three years of education wrote this huge book with systems of government, systems of weights and measures, societies, and geography from the Middle east that he could not have known all accurately portrayed, and never made a mistake in one pass, this being his first such work. Experienced writers cannot do that easily, or at all.
___________________________________________________

It’s called plagiarism