Why so many LDS threads?

You are wrong. Those who preach the Gospel of Jesus by the call of the Holy Spirit do not preach to make a living, but they get the living of the Gospel because they preach it.

God has ordained that those who preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel.

1Cr 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1Cr 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Cr 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

I think Romney running brought some temporary interest to this place.
Then a few Mormon cults were found to be impregnating little girls and getting rid of their male children and the country again took notice.

58 I think. Unless he’s in a sad state...

I jokingly tell my husband when he says he’s trying, I reply VERY. He’s a sweetheart so he knows I don’t really mean it. We can all be very trying at times...LOL.

I already have the bunnies...

What I find disturbing is how LDS related posts that direct references to historical or archelogical claims get tagged as “devotional”. Threads related to such subjects should be wide open to debate and not closed.

“Bible” means collection of books.
One can have in their collection books that are written by men who know God and which books are true and are historical, but which are not “Thus saith the LORD”. Their books will not contradict anything that is written as “Thus saith the LORD, if they are indeed true. Joseph Smith’s books contradicted “Thus saith the LORD”.

FYI: Enoch 1 is included in the list of Canon by the Ethiopian Coptic Church, and it has been since the beginning of the NT Church in Ethiopia.
The Book of 1 Enoch confirms all OT and NT doctrines about the Person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ. It was written for the world, for all nations, and it was written for it’s own day and also for this “day”, which is why it was brought back from Ethiopia in the late 1700’s and translated to English in the early 1800’s; for the Holy Spirit has overseen it coming into fashion again, in the west, so that those who seek the LORD who are left alive on earth in the day of tribulation -after the Believers in Christ are taken out of the midst of the earth- will understand. That is what the opening of it begins with, and that is what Jude quoted from.
The final book, Revelation, given us by Jesus Christ is only a fulfillment of all that Enoch first saw, and the one explains the other.

There is nothing any man has written since Revelation of Jesus Christ that is a word from God in any manner, shape, or form.

Men may write books expounding the Gospel of Christ, and they do write excellent books doing so, but there is nothing added or taken away from that which Jesus Christ has spoken, and His last word is the book of Revealtion.

I am confused.

Yep. If you rely on the Assemblies of God to elect a President, I guess so.

What does the assemblies of God say about Jews, who totally reject Christ.

Does the assemblies of God also tell you where to shop, and which bank to patronize?

Is the Assemblies of God the arbitor of the love in one's heart and soul?

“Yep. If you rely on the Assemblies of God to elect a President, I guess so.

What does the assemblies of God say about Jews, who totally reject Christ.

Does the assemblies of God also tell you where to shop, and which bank to patronize?

Is the Assemblies of God the arbitor of the love in one’s heart and soul? “

Wait a minute, you are Assemblies of God not me.

Tell me how your Assemblies of God church answers those questions.

If you are AofG you better not be going to movies, dancing, smoking or drinking alcohol etc..

It’s not Biblical to leave the workers unpaid..

Preaching the gospel is not work, not to me, not to any Christian it is no burden. Not being able to testify of Jesus, now that would be a burden too grievous to bear.

IMHO you twist the scripture, 1st peter 5 : 2 is clearly talking about preaching the word, there are many types of labor.

Believe what you will, it doesn't change the truth.

It was sarcasm DU.

Then you missed a tag...

But, thanks for reminding me that the LDS church sits on Billions

and the Catholics, and the Greek Orthodox and the ...

The money you speak of is mostly tied up in buildings, care to talk about the value of say the Sistine chapel?

“carpet bombers” How descriptive, well done!

I Said: I can't speak for others, but reason I went was because of my testimony of Jesus that I wanted to share with others who didn't have a testimony.

U Said: How about the ones who DID have a testimony? Did you accept their testimony if it didn't agree with yours? Or did you try to convince them their testimony was wrong. You wouldn't accept MY testimony.

Of course I accepted their testimony, I even help missionaries from other churches with their Chinese (one guy had been studying for over ten years, and still people couldn't understand him. I guess the Gift of tongues really does come in handy.

As for your testimony, Grey, if you testify to me of Jesus, I'll accept that, if you testify to me of the Bible, I'll accept that. If you testify to me that the Book of Mormon is not true, and your story is fishy, I won't accept that, sorry. I had a guy on one thread tell me that I didn't exist, I didn't accept his testimony either.

U Said: I didn't see anything wrong with the answerbag quote...and I don't seen anything wrong with parents writing off the money.

I'm sure after reading all the anti stuff you have obviously read, you didn't see anything slanted there at all...

U Said: It just seems a little penurious of the LDS church to make members pay for their own missions when the Mormon church is one of the richest corporations going. Many individual churches, (mine for example) have a mission fund that is supported by the general membership to support their missionaries. There is no hardship on the individual members.

If you, or your parents don't have the means, there is a general fund, so? Are you actually telling me that if I went to your church and wanted to go on a mission and had saved up all the money they wouldn't let me pay my own way?

U Said: And as I noted, I suspect that the LDS church includes the payment of these funds (raised from members) in their "statistics" when quoting the amount of giving to charity in their PR releases.

I am sure that individual freepers quote from many and varied sources for their figures, I personally am not aware of ever having quoted any such figures, it's not relevant to the truthfulness of the gospel, and many who we disagree with philosophically do great works of righteousness, so? As gets pointed out to me here all the time, their works will not save them.

From the Quote: tax-exempt foundation

U Said: Which you equate to people working there for free. Nope, only means mormons can write off any donations to them to get more money back for themselves.

In Post # 941 you Said: FARMS has been on the LDS payroll since its inception.
When in reality Farms was started by a man named John W. Welch, who was an attorney and an LDS member. you were wrong, now you weasel word like a Clinton.

From the Quote: Speaking often at firesides, Welch had seen great need for an organization that could coordinate and distribute research on the Book of Mormon.

U Said: So he was on a speaking tour – lots of folk make a lot of money that way too.

ROTFLOL! Firesides are free, and having spoken at many myself, I can assure you I was never paid with more than refreshments afterwords, if that counts, LOL firesides as a career!

U Said: Budget – I thought they were working for free to keep away from all that filthy lucre stuff.

Web sites are not free, bandwidth costs money, ask Jim about that...

U Said: Incase you havn’t figured it out, when you hire people on a professional basis, they are being paid for what they do. They came under BYU for funding – aka money from the Mormon church.

Maybe you don't know how college work, Undergrads do everything for peanuts just for the experience and to get "Published" professors who want tenure also have to publish stuff, Farms became a place to publish work, much by volunteers, edited by paid staff. I am quite sure that the church employs many web developers to keep it's web site running too, so? the prohibition was on those who were to teach the Gospel, but of course with your degrees and such, you knew that, right?

I Said: Embarrassed? You should be.

U Said: Nope, as usual your own citation show that :

Again, you should be embarrassed, shameless bending of the truth is or should be beneath a man of God.

U Said: 1. Welch did speaking engagements

For free...

U Said: 2. They paid for staff to work there and an increasing operations budget – in the range of $2 million in the 1990’s – what is is now? Some have hinted at $20 million but they don’t publish it openly.

How much does Jim spend annually to run FR? I'll bet you'd be surprised. BTW, he's a non profit organization, by your logic, he's a front for some church...

U Said: 3. They are now designated professionals and are funded under BYU and the Mormon church.

they are now part of BYU, so they can take advantage of all the free labor undergrads will give them to get published, sounds smart to me, so? You said that has "been on the LDS payroll since its inception", by stating that they are now part of BYU means there status has changed to that, ergo you admit you were wrong and lied about us.

...

U Said: Wow, imagine that DU, they take money from the people to write the stuff they do about Christianity and obfuscate for mormonism.

Apparently one mans obfuscation is another man's clarification, I will admit that you seem to know far more about obfuscation than I do...

U Said: Multimillion dollar operation and you don’t think people there DON’T get paid a wage, and you say I should be embarrassed. – Sniff, sniff – smells like filthy lucre to me….

It's a collage, most colleges are multi million dollar operations, some times multi million just describes the football team. they often don't pay students if they don't have to, that's the point of having undergraduates, people who teach the classes for the professors, write their papers, do their research, for next to nothing if not nothing, and the professors are out looking for grants to justify more free labor to make them more money, college is a scam, trust me on this.

I Said: Just out of curiosity, how much does it pay to be a professional anti Mormon, I could get a job doing what you do and in the evenings refute what I had said during the day, now that's job security!

U Said: I wouldn’t know since I don’t get paid to do this.

I thought you had said earlier that you were a professional theologian, and this was part of your work, pardon me if I got that wrong, are you or are you not a professional religionist?

U Said: And in your typical style of de-contexting scripture, you have conveniently left out 2Thess 2: 6-8 which show the context of the falling away to be right before Jesus returns and destroys with the brightness of His coming the evil one proclaiming himself to be god.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Paul says it's already at work...

U Said: Thus the ‘falling away’ is a scene just at the end of the Church Age,

Yes well it would be wouldn't it, like the thing you are looking for is always in the last place you look because once you find it you stop looking.

"Wherever you go, there you are..." - Buckaroo banzai

U Said: But that was a nice try, DU. You keep trying to denigrate the Bible ... God will get to you yet! There is hope!!

Thanks, wish I could say the same, your defense was weak, you actually referenced a scripture that proves my point, not yours.

"You may find that there are denominations who, while believing the trinity, would not use that belief as the deciding factor in declaring christianity. Some denominations don’t reject Mormons as christians."

"That’s a twist on what I said. I said there are some denominations which do not reject MORMONS as Christians. I did NOT say that there were denominations that do not reject MORMONISM as Christian. I hope you see the difference. In the first, the question is whether an individual who has been in the Mormon church could be accepted as a member of the new denomination."

============================================================

What churches are those?

Charles"The only one that I can say I’ve seen direct evidence of is the one I mentioned the first time. Of course, I imagine the Unitarians might, but I couldn’t find a link on their web site.

What churches are those? Unitarians aren't in the mix. Please supply links.

U Said: If you are claiming the bom to be that second witness, then it first stands and falls upon the credibility of the writer – Joseph Smith

See, right there you assert some thing that is not so, it's credibility comes from God or not at all, If Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, it'd already be in the dustbin of history, but here we are discussing it still...

(you go on to slander a good man, but it's wasted breath because you premise is flawed, right along with your "facts" on Joseph Smith. I hope men are kinder to your memory then you have been to Joseph's

U Said: Being contextually challenged too

Actually, i got the Context, thanks, and it's exactly what I mean, God will continue to come to us with his word, not stop inexplicably to do what he has done for all time and close his mouth and not speak nor reveal his truth. The bible has unfulfilled prophecies that speak of prophets... which means there should still be some.

I Said: Have you heard of The Johannine Comma?

U Said: Red herring – the understanding about it has been out longer than you have been alive.

Yeah, it is agreed by Scholars that this addition to the Bible gives one of the places that was used in the defining the Doctrine of the trinity that God and Jesus are the same being, it's a typo? (or copy'o) Yeah the Clintonian that's old news, we've known about that major flaw in the Bible for longer than you've been alive, so it's still inerrant. LOL!

U Said: How about the thousands of changes to the bom?

Like the changes tot eh bible, Addition of verses, chapters foot notes and spelling corrections? yes the Book of Mormon has had similar changes, then there are the corrections Joseph made to the manuscripts, which the printer ignored, and the word white which was changed to pure because usage has changed, is that all you've got?

I Said: Which Bible is it that's complete, the Catholic, or the Protestant one?

U Said: Mormons would say the Protestant one, since by doctrine Mormons do not accept the apocrypha – more obfuscation. However, more to the point is why aren’t Mormons using the Joseph Smith Translation and discarding the KJV, since the JST was fixed by Smith via revelation.

First, you are the ones saying the Bible is complete an inerrant, since there are so many versions it's only logical to ask which one is since they disagree with each other sometimes.

As to the JST, Emma retained ownership of the manuscript, and gave it to what is now the community of Christ Church, they won't give or sell the rights, so we are stuck with excerpts which are in the KJV as printed by the LDS church.

U Said: Psssssst. Those alleged quotes came from the section of 1 Enoch called the Similitudes. Subtle hint – Similitudes are not present at the dss site.

The Book of Enoch uncovered in the dead sea scrolls was not complete, that is true, so? many of the books of scripture recovered are not complete, until parts of the Book of Enoch were found there these same "Scholars" were insisting that the whole thing was written later, they were wrong.

U Said: More subtle hint - most scholars believe they were written well after the time of Christ. But that doesn’t matter either since Enoch was never considered scripture by the Jews or Christians.

As to Enoch being considered scripture, so Jesus Quoted from it, the apostles quoted from it, all of Christendom used it until it was not Canonized in Jamnia and even then it's use took hundreds of years to die out, we have it now largely because the Copts continued to use it into modern times (and still do) but hey one blanket quote from Godzilla and nope, it was never used by anybody (the evidence disagrees with you, so who to believe, you or my lying eyes...)

U Said: But then that should not be a problem for the church with a living seer and prophet – those books could be added to the lds canon at any time.

You are right about one thing, it's not a problem for us, we know how to recognize truth. I Said: So is it denigration to point out the truth? (anti's keep claiming that is all they are doing, you can't have it both ways...)

U Said: What is denigrating? Only your poorly researched presentation in an attempt to discredit the bible to the eyes of Christians (but then you don’t participate in that).

In case you were not paying attention, in the post I was responding to, I was specifically called out as one who disrespect the Bible. I hold the Bible in very high esteem, it is the word of God. I also recognize that it's not perfect. Others are insisting that it is, OK, let them back that assertion up when they attack me for not agreeing with them.

Go back and look, I did not bring this up, it was brought up by one of yours.

U Said: I have asked Mormons this with no answer - who is the son of perdition – he should be revealed and recognized for all to see? Name him. Has Christ returned? Biblical key word study of the term day of Christ or similar indicates the end of times. Have we been in the end of times since????????

Your time scale is not God's time scale, the falling away happened the the Son of perdition would be revealed, that does not mean immediately. Jesus died that all might be saved, that does not mean immediately, some of us are still down here screwing up (I mean me, no attack should be inferred here).

I have answered this question to you before... perhaps you forgot.

U Said: More tripe and mis application of 1 John.

Please explain how this is a misapplication, really, I'd like to know what you think here.

U Said: Since you have identified me as an anti in the past, you are broad brushing here.

Hey, I made it multiple choice, pick the whine that matches your shine...

I Said: Try to explain why the Book of Mormon can't be true.

U Said: Lets just say that the overwhelming evidence (and the lack of the proof) shows that there was no Nephi civilization in the new world during the periods of time claimed by the bom. Further, studies have shown the native Americans to be Mongolian descent – not Jewish by multiple physical, and dna related methods. The story is false and only a false spirit would convince otherwise

LOL! Oh beautifully done, you stepped right into the center of the bear trap NONE OF WHAT YOU SAID IS TRUE. There are plenty of "Mystery" civilizations in the Americas, and there is plenty of evidence for (Do you really want me to list them Again? If I do you'll just claim the evidence is flawed and there fore there isn't any. or you'll fall back on "peer reviewed" and say anything not published by sources outside the churches is inadmissible (which is a ridiculous standard, let's apply it to say Christianity as a whole...) The DNA study that was so flawed the guys who actually did the research won't talk about it, only laymen who don't understand what was wrong do. The Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon, the Jewish and Other Semitic Texts Written in Egyptian Characters, (can you say reformed Egyptian which was a tough sell until other records started to show up that way...), then there's The Paleo Hebrew written on a boulder in Los Lunas Arizona, The The Bat Creek stone with the ten commandments written in Hebrew, there is the Discovery that if you follow the directions given in the Book of Mormon, you find all the unusual landmarks described in it for the middle east, including Naholm and Bountiful

You will dismiss these one by one and insist that there is no evidence, of course not for there is no man so blind as those who will not see.

I Said: Impugn the name of dead men in an attempt to make Mormons look weird.

U Said: One doesn’t have to work hard at all, they did a pretty good job of doing it all by themselves. BTW, being dead does not infer credibility to these dead people one bit, their credibility is still open to evaluation and challenge. But then that’s what they pay FARMS for.

Actually, with the amount of effort that's been put into it you've come up with a surprisingly small amount of stuff. I mean the Treasure hunter stuff still gets play even though it's known to all come from the Salamander letter forged by Mark Hofmann, hey it says what you want it to say, keep using the discredited thing, make people point out that it was a forgery every time, challenge them to prove a negative, that's the ticket!

IMHO it's pathetic to pick on a man who was marytered for his faith, and make up stuff about him. pathetic.

I Said: Misquote our leaders

U Said: As one Freeper P-marlo showed, Young taught the Adam-God doctrine by being allowed to cite the entire sermon. Problem is that you complain when we put down too much context.

The Adam God theory was a Theory that was indeed talked about by Brigham young, I understand the theory, but it has never been the Doctrine of the church, so? It's not the only thing you guys misquote, come on the JOD is full of non cannoned theories by lots of prominent Mormons, you can do better then the AGT

I Said: Tell people that Satan will answer their prayers.

U Said: He tricked Peter : Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

And in 2 Cor 11: 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

And if Satan can trick Adam and Eve in the garden, his MO is still the same today. If Satan can’t disguise a false answer to prayer, the apostles spent a lot of ink warning us about it and Satan is pretty much a failure.

I see nothing in the scriptures you quote about Satan answering a prayer to God. Indeed he came to Adam and eve, but he did that on his own and not in answer to a prayer. Indeed he can be very deceitful, but not in answer to a prayer, in fact prayer is the only sure defense against Satan's power, I would that all men would pray to God unceasingly that they might have his influence in their lives and not that of the TV.

2 Ne. 32: 8

8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

I Said: Try to tell people we and the FLDS are the same church (we're not in case anyone wondered).

U Said: Oh, modern history. No, FLDS is what officially LDS was through the mid 1890’s and in some circumstances as late as 1910 and without the repeal of Section 132, could well be again.

I suppose the Protestant were not too long ago Catholics and with the repudiation of some small differences could be again...

But they are not now, nor are Mormons and the FLDS the same church, and you again don't look good claiming to be a man of God and bending the truth. God never lies, those who follow him shouldn't either.

I Said: anything but encourage people to pray about the Book of Mormon.

U Said: That is because we have already received our spiritual message and the Spirit says NO. And I will stand with the many former Mormons here who have realized the same and come out.

So you would deny others the right to get an answer? Do you claim you can receive an answer for them? If you truly believe that they will receive a "NO" answer, then you should be saying fine, great, go read it, call us when God laughs when you ask if it's his, instead you guys get all stirred up and mad when I challenge people to read it, Why? The only logical reason is you are worried that people will get an answer and will know you have lied to them about us. (it's just logic...)

U Said: Now how valid are DUs final observations?

Dead on.

I Said: Anti's place Logic above revelation.

U Said: Nope, Paul said to prove all things. We further believe that the Bible is all the revelation we need.

Hence the discouragement of prayer...

I Said: Anti's will say bad things about someone when they aren't around to defend themselves.

U Said: Again, a remark about Smith, et al inability to defend themselves or their teachings. So sad, but the pay FARMS to pick up the slack.

LOL, I think you have a Joseph Smith Fetish, i was thinking of Brigham young, but hey there are lots of dead guys to chose from and Anti's don't seem to be picky...

I Said: Anti's believe they can receive revelation for you (even when they tell you revelation has ceased)

U Said: This is laughable and fluffy – I have yet to see an anti here make this claim in that context.

From earlier in your post "That is because we have already received our spiritual message and the Spirit says NO." you say it's never done right after doing it... One of us is fluffy all right, but it's not me.

I Said: Anti's think Lurkers are stupid.

U Said: On the contrary, speaking for myself (though I suspect it is shared by other antis) the lurkers are very smart and the responses to the right handed typing posts by mormons here make the point very well. Secondly, I would not be going into the detail I do if I considered the readers to be stupid. What they may think about mormon theology and apologia is another matter.

Detail? Verbosity is not detail, Detail is not accurate, I have read some very writings that had not a lick of truth in them, detail does not make truth, just detail. on the other hand i testify that I have received a witness direct from God and you denigrate it with "detail".

I Said: Anti's think Lurkers won't read the responses, and Can't use Google.

U Said: Again, see previous line, people here are FR are very literate.

Yet you blithely stated that "FARMS has been on the LDS payroll since its inception." (Post # 941) When a quick Google proves that to be an utter falsehood, if you thought they were going to catch you, you wouldn't be so cavalier with the truth.

I Said: Anti's don't believe God answers prayers to him.

U Said: Just a little earlier DU posted a statement saying that we lie about Mormon doctrine. Kettle meet pot.

I didn't say that all anti's believe that, but some sure do, I can point you to some posts where anti's told me exactly that when talking about Joseph's first vision, but I'm sure you could find them yourself if you wanted to (Google).

I Said: Anti's think Catholics and protestants are the same church (hey, it's the same logic splits in religion = same religion...)

U Said: I will rejoice with my Catholic brothers and sisters in heaven in that we are both catholic, members of the saved throughout the ages (DU fails to understand the difference in the uses and application of the term ecclesia, but we love him anyway) and we will both be amaze at what we will find out then. But what DU fails to realize is that denominations do not equal separate religions, but different ways of interpreting and applying the faith we share. This faith cannot be shared in the same way with Mormons because their theology is completely incompatible with Christianity. This enormous Mormon hose job of the past few days has made this clear.

Mormon theology is Christianty, if your beliefs are incompatible with Christinty, repent.

I Said: Anti's don't think Lurkers can get a prayer right.

U Said: Doesn’t everyone just LOVE the way DU is able to leap to such conclusions and do it with a straight type font.

I'm laughing on the inside...

U Said: Unremarkably, one will look far and wide to prove this.

Actually, it's not hard at all, in this very thread you said "That is because we have already received our spiritual message and the Spirit says NO." that quote was in response to me saying that anti's would do anything but encourage people to pray. Thus you either don't believe that is the answer they will get (which you protested is not so) or you think they are too dumb to get a prayer right and get the correct answer from God, take your pick.

Lurkers, Godzilla is a paid Theologian, he is paid to represent his church, I am an amateur, I get nothing for my service here. I come here only for one reason for the testimony of Jesus, and the Glory of God. The lord knows I have had no end of hassling for being a Mormon who will not knuckle under even when I have tons of posters coming at me with all manner of tactics. I testify to you that I know the Book of Mormon is true, I know Jesus lives I received this knowledge direct from God, both testimonies at the Same time, just as First John 4:1-3 promised they would if the message was of God. If you want to know as I know, then ignore all this banter here, and Put the Book of Mormon to "The Test"

Why would I post this publicly? Because I know what God's answer is to the question you will ask, that's why. There is no other reason for me to post this. think about it, then Forget Godzilla, he might be lying, for get me, I might be a prevaricator of the first order, ask God, he will never lie to you and will ever answer a petition from an honest seeker.

God bless you all.

I'm still waiting for DU to name names of who this son of perdition is since he is to be revealed

You're gonna be waiting a while because yep he'll be revealed, in the future... not now.

Which post? I guess I missed it. I don't bother wading through DU's stuff.

Spoken like a true intellectual...