Posted on 05/04/2008 5:03:17 PM PDT by restornu
The events that took place after the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor led to the assassination of Joseph Smith by an angry mob.
Joseph Smith is vilified by people who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the other Restorationist groups that split off from the main organization after its founder's death. But those who belong to what is termed the Restorationist Movement remember him as a martyr, and the prophet's assassination lives on as an important moment in their faith.
What is the friggin point of all this now on both sides?
Mormons will chose to adhere to their beliefs.
And non-Mormons will do the same.
FR is a political forum, first and foremost. There is a robust and vital religious component to FR underneath our politics.
But these non-stop attacks are not part of that honorable history. Neither side will convince each other. You are clearly entrenched in your own beliefs. So why bother? Realize the real enemy is not the Mormon or the Baptist or the Catholic. It is the anti-American liberal who would undermine the core beliefs that we all share as Freepers - that America is great, that faith is a good thing, and that we are united by that common goodness.
You are so wrong! Mormon Polygamy was no mistake.
If you have a very small group of people that you wish to make larger, what is the quickest way to do it?
You take a lesson from rabbits and rats. You propagate as many offspring as possible by spreading yourself as far and wide as you can, as quickly as you can.
One mate will not do that, if you wish to reach a viable critical mass! We have proof everywhere that Joseph Smith's plan reached fruition.
EVERYBODY with a pulse knew South Carolina was going to secede from the Union.
Next...
One of those new numbered sections was 87, the section that "foretold" The Civil War, but which had never been in any edition of The Doctrine And Covenants until eleven years after that war had ended.
The Doctrine And Covenants asserts that this section was written in 1832, but there is no autograph to corroborate the date of this section or the fascinating timing of its eventual inclusion.
An understanding of the political background of the prophecy tells an interesting story.
As early as July, 1832, South Carolina had shown itself to be a somewhat rebellious member of the Union, and had even threatened to secede from the union (this was because of a tariff act Congress had passed which South Carolina had rejected). . . In the interim between the events of July 1832 and the December 1832 prophecy of Smith, the Mormon leader had been to New York city, where there was was general concern that South Carolina would secede from the Union. After Smith�s return to Ohio, South Carolina threatened secession if the tariff act was enforced. The date of Joseph Smith's prophecy is December 25, 1832, five months after the beginning of the turmoil in South Carolina, during which time Smith had been exposed to the rumours of secession and war while in New York.
This news reached Ohio in due course and on December 25, l832, Joseph prophesied of a war that would originate in South Carolina. The point to note is this: since the news about the threat of war was public knowledge before Dec.25, l832, Smith had good material for his prediction. All the statement of South Carolina shows is that Joseph Smith knew the political situation of the time, and of course he would have known it, it was common knowledge that South Carolina had threatened secession over the tariff act.
So it is not simply a case that Joseph could not have known anything in advance; on the contrary, he surely knew that South Carolina was very likely going to secede and start a war. The details of the prophecy, as recorded below, show that Smith was very much in error about the details of the war, and hence his credibility as a "prophet" is destroyed.
Below is the text of the prophecy from Doctrine and Covenants (emphasis mine). It is well to read the prophecy with the political background in mind.
"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war. And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations"
(D&C: Section 87:1-6) Also RLDS Church History, Vol. l, pp. 262-263) Response: Although the Civil War did occur, it was never "poured out upon all nations" and did not lead to "a full end of all nations." Also, slaves did not rise up in rebellion against their masters. In other words, a lot of this prophecy never in fact came to pass. And the part that did aparently come to pass, the starting of the Civil War in South Carolina, and the Southern States fighting the Northern States, was something that could easily have been discerned as early as 1832, as the political situation was indeed very volatile at that time in South Carolina. The war was certainly not "poured out upon all nations", and we still have nations in the 21st century, and had them after the Civil War too, so there was no "full end of all nations". Therefore the prophecy is false.
Again, as with the first prophecy discussed above, the wording of this prophecy makes it quite clear that Joseph Smith was indeed acting as a prophet when he made this prophecy, so there is no recourse for Mormons to say now that Smith was not acting in his capacity as prophet. The language of the prophecy (especially the introductory statement. "Verily, thus saith the Lord", ) makes it quite clear that Smith was acting in his capacity as prophet. It is also well to point out that the trueprophets of the Old Testament never made a false prophecy, and did not need recourse to the type of excuses Mormon missionaries come up withtoday. Why should the same standard not apply to Joseph Smith? (The answer of course is because he fails as a prophet.)
Conclusion:
We see from an analysis of two prophecies of Joseph Smith, that this supposed prophet of God was not a prophet at all , but a false prophet. There are in fact numerous other prophecies of Joseph Smith which could be examined and found wanting, but that is not really necessary. Just one false prophecy is enough to make one a false prophet. We have presented two such false prophecies in this paper. No amount of wrangling by Mormon apologists will undo the stark facts: these prophecies failed to come true!
Joseph Fielding Smith [Mormon Prophet] stated: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground."
"If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, . . ." (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188-9.)
"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22. From Here
Please see post 44.
And your point is well taken: even if this actually had been written in 1832 - which is, to put it mildly, very hard to swallow given the circumstances of its first publication - South Carolina had already threatened to secede and mobilize during the nullification crisis of 1828.
Lies all of it. There is one God and Mohammad is his Prophet !!!!
Or else it was Ellen White. Or Mary Baker Eddy. Or else Nostradamus.
Good Lord. There’s a reason we were warned of those false prophets who would come and lead many astray.
Although South Carolina's desire to secede was a well-known fact of current events in 1832, this document was first published in 1876.
LDS apologists will point out that pre-1876 editions of The Doctrine And Covenants had a section 87 - however the 1835 edition of The Doctrine And Covenants and the 1876 edition have the sections numbered according to different schemes and the 1876 text of 87 is not the 1835 text of 87 and does not exist in any edition predating 1876.
Such as Obama. Or Hillary. Or Howard Dean. Or Soros. Or Terry McAuliffe.
Naw, let's rip into the Mormons. Even though the vast majority of Mormons raise good families with good core values.
Or let's rip into the Catholics. Most of whom are among the strongest pro-life advocates in the land.
Or maybe we can rip into the Baptists. Who epitomize the best of core American religious values.
Yeah, let's all sink our fangs into the throats of the imperfect allies that surround us!
I encourage all who might be interested in Mormon doctrine to read articles on this site - http://www.mazeministry.com/
The Restoration of Truth
The Great Apostasy
http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/the-great-apostasy
Following the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted and killed many Church members, and other Church members drifted from the principles taught by Jesus Christ and His Apostles?. The Apostles were killed and the priesthood authority—including the keys to direct and receive revelation? for the Church—was taken from the earth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3). Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority and revelation, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel? as established by Jesus Christ was lost, resulting in a period called the Great Apostasy?.
This apostasy led to the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings. Without the full gospel or the priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to interpret the scriptures? and the principles and ordinances? of the gospel of Jesus Christ. False ideas were taught as truth, and much of the knowledge of the true character and nature of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was lost. The doctrines of faith? in Jesus Christ, repentance?, baptism?, and the gift of the Holy Ghost? became distorted or forgotten. Each generation inherited a state of apostasy, as people were influenced by what previous generations passed on, including changes to Christ’s gospel. Some inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost and tried to reform the churches to which they belonged. Without the priesthood authority, however, Christ’s gospel could not be returned to its original form.
After centuries of spiritual darkness, a restoration? of truth was needed. Under the Direction of our Heavenly Father, the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored on the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. God has promised it will never be taken from His children again. ******************
Yeah, sure. Joseph Smith the peepstone gazer, that’s the ticket.
Actually, it was 39 years after Joseph Smith said it, not 20. I misspoke.
The fact that they must continue to make more than 400 "corrections" is a bit disturbing to me but not to the "true believers."
The fact that they have an entire archeology and research department (FARMS) at Brigham Young University that has spent thousands of hours (and countless dollars one would imagine) and have yet to prove any of the statements made by Jos. Smith or the Book of Mormon, would bother a few Mormons, if they were made aware of it.
“The Prophet wrote the revelation down. He told Church members about it. But it was not printed. Saints wanting copies had to hand copy from Joseph’s copy. Orson Pratt, the energetic young missionary, obtained a handwritten copy, which he frequently pulled out and read to people during his travels. In February 1832 he started, on foot, on a 4,000-mile mission that would continue for several years, preaching in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, New England, and Canada, during which he converted 104 people. Every year for the next five years he walked east and filled missions. Of those preaching days he later recalled:
‘When I was a boy, I traveled extensively in the United States and the Canadas, preaching this restored Gospel. I had a manuscript copy of this revelation (on civil war), which I carried in my pocket, and I was in the habit of reading it to the people among whom I traveled and preached.’
“How did his listeners respond? Did they say, ‘Well, it takes no prophet to see war will start in South Carolina’? No. Said Orson: ‘As a general thing the people regarded it as the height of nonsense, saying the Union was too strong to be broken; and I they said, was led away, the victim of an impostor.’
“When South Carolina’s secession threats cooled down after 1832, did Orson begin to doubt the prophecy? No, because ‘I knew the prophecy was true, for the Lord had spoken to me and had given me revelation.’ But year after year passed away without war, and now and then ‘some of the acquaintances I had formerly made would say, `Well, what is going to become of that prediction? It’s never going to be fulfilled.` ‘ Orson replied, ‘Wait, the Lord has his set time.’
“Perhaps doubters chided Joseph Smith too that the prophecy had ‘failed.’ For just before his death the Prophet restated it:
‘I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina. It may probably arise through the slave question. This a voice declared to me while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832.’
“Then, more years of unfulfillment passed. But Elder Pratt, an Apostle since 1835, still felt such confidence in the prophecy that he helped arrange for its publication in England in 1851. This was the first time the prophecy appeared in print.
“Orson had to wait only a decade more. In December 1860 South Carolina voted itself out of the United States. Other southern states soon did the same. On April 12, 1861, secessionists’ cannons opened fire on the United States’ fort, Fort Sumter, in Charleston harbor, and South Carolina thereby started a bloody war that would last four years and claim 600,000 lives.
“After the Civil War, Elder Pratt said, ‘This is another testimony that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of the Most High God.’ (William G. Hartley, “Prophecy in His Pocket,” New Era, Jan. 1989, 44-45)
I know that is is impossible to be a man of God and screw as many married women as Smith did.
How that doesn't raise suspicion with any Mormon believer is beyond my comprehension.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
The prophecy in question wasn’t originally printed in the D&C, this is known already. It wasn’t included until a later edition of the D&C. While it is possible to doubt it was received in 1832, it was originally published in England in 1851. A full ten years prior to the start of the Civil War.
It definitely was not written after the Civil War as you claim.
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