Posted on 03/29/2008 8:24:03 PM PDT by hanfei
Chapter 4 (Pages 1 to 6 of the manuscript, containing chapters 1 - 3, are lost. The extant text starts on page 7...)
. . . Will matter then be destroyed or not?
22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.
23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.
24) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
25) Peter said to him, Since you have explained everything to us, tell us this also: What is the sin of the world?
26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.
27) That is why the Good came into your midst, to the essence of every nature in order to restore it to its root.
28) Then He continued and said, That is why you become sick and die, for you are deprived of the one who can heal you.
29) He who has a mind to understand, let him understand.
30) Matter gave birth to a passion that has no equal, which proceeded from something contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in its whole body.
31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.
32) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
33) When the Blessed One had said this, He greeted them all,saying, Peace be with you. Receive my peace unto yourselves.
34) Beware that no one lead you astray saying Lo here or lo there! For the Son of Man is within you.
35) Follow after Him!
36) Those who seek Him will find Him.
37) Go then and preach the gospel of the Kingdom.
38) Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.
39) When He said this He departed.
Chapter 5 1) But they were grieved. They wept greatly, saying, How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If they did not spare Him, how will they spare us?
2) Then Mary stood up, greeted them all, and said to her brethren, Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for His grace will be entirely with you and will protect you.
3) But rather, let us praise His greatness, for He has prepared us and made us into Men.
4) When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.
5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.
6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.
7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you.
8) And she began to speak to them these words: I, she said, I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to Him, Lord I saw you today in a vision. He answered and said to me,
9) Blessed are you that you did not waver at the sight of Me. For where the mind is there is the treasure.
10) I said to Him, Lord, how does he who sees the vision see it, through the soul or through the spirit?
11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision and it is [...]
(pages 11 - 14 are missing from the manuscript)
Chapter 8: . . . it.
10) And desire said, I did not see you descending, but now I see you ascending. Why do you lie since you belong to me?
11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me.
12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly.
13) Again it came to the third power, which is called ignorance.
14) The power questioned the soul, saying, Where are you going? In wickedness are you bound. But you are bound; do not judge!
15) And the soul said, Why do you judge me, although I have not judged?
16) I was bound, though I have not bound.
17) I was not recognized. But I have recognized that the All is being dissolved, both the earthly things and the heavenly.
18) When the soul had overcome the third power, it went upwards and saw the fourth power, which took seven forms.
19) The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth is the excitement of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the foolish wisdom of flesh, the seventh is the wrathful wisdom. These are the seven powers of wrath.
20) They asked the soul, Whence do you come slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
21) The soul answered and said, What binds me has been slain, and what turns me about has been overcome,
22) and my desire has been ended, and ignorance has died.
23) In a aeon I was released from a world, and in a Type from a type, and from the fetter of oblivion which is transient.
24) From this time on will I attain to the rest of the time, of the season, of the aeon, in silence.
Chapter 9 1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.
2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.
3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.
4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?
5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?
6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.
7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.
8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.
9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.
10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.
The Gospel According to Mary
The Catholics also deny the Orthodox Trinity, mass-murdered Copto-Armenians, and call Augustin their greatest saint while denying his teachings (enter Calvin). So what?
>>It’s very old; author is unclear, but is purportedly — far from certain — Mary Magdalene or Mary.<<
Whenever I see something like this, I apply the following:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
What really irritates me about Catholicism is that it denies MY sainthood!
Soon, it will have to admit the non-Prophet Muhammad, or the poor dears won’t get churches in Saudi Arabia.
Oh I think you do. You started them.
Good heavens, and people think this mish mash is a valid gospel?
Really?? Please point out precisely where in any of my postings on this thread I did any such.
You made the statement "Gnosticism started way before Christianity and the Apostle Paul was up to his ears in it." And I asked for a clarification of what you were referring to, as you replied to post #20, which was actually Beachdwellers (not mine)--but you included me in your reply for some unknown reason.
So, I'll say it again---if you think you have something true to add to the discussion, post it. Otherwise shut up.
The earliest dating I've seen is the middle of the second century. Old, but not old enough to have been written by any Mary that walked with Jesus while he was on earth.
During the second and third centuries, what we would call 'new agers' today began popping up and attempted to hi-jack the true gospel. That is what caused the church to conduct councils (i.e. the Council of Nicea).They wanted to come together and reiterate in a formal way what the church had believed since its inception.
You shut up.
Hey Buckaroo. I mearly mentioned Paul was neck deep in gnosticism and you referred to my "shorthand" as "gibberish". Shouldn't have taken that tone with me dude. And then start the babyish "shut up" routine. What a thin skinned poster you are.
One should read the Nag-Hammadi Codices (of which this is a part) to fully realize the kind of company this codex keeps. One quickly determines the lack of scriptural value.
When reading such things, the antithesis is the most valuable lesson, those things which one must suppose are happening in the society that would spawn such a work for the obvous purpose of changing attitudes within the Church. It is interesting to see the same forces working against the church so many, many years ago.
The more things change, the more they remain exactly the same.
I know of no Protestant denomination that embraces Gnosticism in the least.
BUMP.
Exactly. But don't expect any seriously engaging discussion by taking that stance. Posters would rather call one sophomoric and tell one to "shut up".
The only way that I know of Paul being "neck deep in Gnosticism" was in denying it. I keep trying to get a clue as to what you are talking about, but you keep playing head games. If you've got something of substance on the subject to say, post it. Otherwise, quit wasting my time.
“So what?”
so go pester a more receptive audience.
You’re kidding, right? You really believe this gospel was authored by apostolic authority of those who knew Jesus? Do you have any idea what the name “gnostic” refers to?
>> whether one believes the “Sayings Gospel Q” theory or not. (I don’t, though I posted Q for people to see much of the old material in pristine form). <<
You do know that there really isn’t a “Q” gospel? You do know that the possibility of a “Q” gospel was put to rest decades ago, when scholars had to concede that the gospels were first-generation, right? You do know that the Jesus Seminar folks are the only ones who seriously discuss the “Q” gospel in the last forty years, right?
You do know that gnostics believed that they could discern events they did not see by using numerology and occult practices, right? You do know that the gnsotic religion predated Christ by centuries, and only sought to pre-empt the new religion, right? You do know that gnosticism was Satanic, holding that the Judeo-Christian God messed up Satan’s plan, right? You do know that gnostics disavowed sexual relations altogether, and made a sacrament out of starving themselves together, right? (You can find a trace of this in this gospel’s Mary’s insistence that she has become a man.)
>> I don’t remember any talk about women having “leadership roles” until the sixties and after. <<
Well, there were the temple prostitutes, but they were definitely not orthodox Christians.
>> The Catholics also deny the Orthodox Trinity, mass-murdered Copto-Armenians, and call Augustin their greatest saint while denying his teachings (enter Calvin). So what?<<
Oh, here we go... I should’ve known that when pressed, you’d turn all anti-Catholic on us.
1. “Filique” not withstanding, Catholics profess the same Trinity as the Orthodox, and any Orthodox person will tell you that.
2. Copto-Armenians? The Copts and the Armenians and 2,000 miles apart. Copts are from Northeast Africa, and Armenians are from Central Asia. Google yourself: this very post made #1 on Google’s references for “Copto-Armenians,” because you just coined a new term.
3. Calvin believed he was reaching the inevitable conclusions of what “Augustine” (sic) was driving towards. But even the most die-hard proponents of a Calvinistic Augustine on FR will admit that Augustine never reached those ends. I know... I’ve had that debate.
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