A Testimony to God's Grace [ex-nun's true story]

Catholic concerns ^ | October 2003 | Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)

[Gamecock]

Or perhaps she knew it all to well.

[Petronski]

Plenty of evidence all over this thread.

It was your post, however, that provided another possible motive.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Being from the DC area too, I can tell you that the seminary he taught in was not accredited, nor was it affiliated with a Presbyterian denomination.

As can be seen above Hahn and all his official Roman Catholic supporters shade the truth a LOT more than this ex-novitiate nun.

AMEN! Thanks for your careful research.

[Petronski]

Two non-sequiturs for the price of one. Fabulous.

[Petronski]

...ex-novitiate nun.

She was not a nun.

[OLD REGGIE]

Plenty of evidence all over this thread.

You are aware that evidence is something which furnishes proof? Proof is sorely lacking in your purported "evidence"

Heresay - now that's a different matter.

[Petronski]

I love the formula at work here:

1. Post an anti-Catholic hit piece from a fake nun
2. Get called on it
3. Throw allegations at someone else in retaliation
4. Make shabby moral equivocations between the two as cover

[Petronski]

I cannot prove a negative. No one has proven she was a nun. Even if what she says is accepted as true, she was never a nun.

Heresay - now that's a different matter.

Absolutely. So is hearsay.

[Alex Murphy]

Scripture as a whole is replete with satire. IIRC, Christ Himself used it on occasion—plain biting satire.

AMEN!

[Petronski]

One of your sources barely halts his name-calling long enough to call Hahn a “lost soul.” Only God would know that.

Your other source is unsigned and seemingly anonymous.

LOL

[saradippity]

It is interesting to me that the article you present as some type of proof that Scott Hahn was not a Presbyterian minister refers to him at least four times as a Presbyterian minister.

As an example,I will quote from your own post:

"After seven years in "Protestant" educational institutions,and now a Presbyterian minister,Hahn,who by all accounts was an excellent student,could not defend the major principles of the Protestant Reformation."

[Laur]

Whether she exists or not, why is this even on a general page? I thought vanity posts were not encouraged

[Petronski]

Shhhhh!

Logical inconsistencies are not predestined...therefore, they do not occur.

Just slap a “ELECT” vanity plate on your car and you’re home free.

[AnalogReigns]

What are the ways one becomes a "minister" in the various groups of Protestants. When one is ordained, who does the ordaining and what makes it "official"?

Serious question.

Obviously, since we have a 1st Amendment, different religious groups ordain their leadership (if any) in different ways. Plymouth Brethren have no ordained ministers (and won't call themselves a denomination either) and "independent" and congregationally governed churches may (or may not) have firm educational training requirements.

Most Protestant churches however do require a Master of Divinity or the equivalent 3-year graduate degree education at an accredited seminary, along with oral and written testing by a higher denominational body than a congregation.

Presbyterians require an MDiv, including Greek and Hebrew (to read scripture in it's original language) along with intensive review and testing by the local Presbytery (a committee of ordained ministers in the denomination, roughly equivalent in authority in polity to a Bishop in episcopal systems). There is some flexibility in this depending on education and life experience, but, the individual is still examined closely by a Presbytery--a body of greater oversight than any one church. Given that a candidate passes (and not a few don't...)an ordination worship service follows where other ordained clergy pray over and lay hands on the new minister.

In Hahn's case it was an "independent"(meaning no presbytery, no denomination...) 30-person (see above)Presbyterian church, which to denominational Presbyterians, is a lot like an "independent" Roman Catholic church, is to you...

As to the novitiate nun's personal story, most Roman Catholics I've known--usually educated, knowledgeable people, were taught from their Priests we are saved by faith + (charitable)works. If that's not official Roman doctrine, well, there's a problem as that is what is being (and has been) widely taught.

The relationship which brings real relief is faith + salvation = (charitable)works, and this, in, with and through the Person of Jesus Christ alone.

[marshmallow]

"Hahn's defection is one of several similar defections. They are occurring, not because Rome is the true church, but because of the apostasy of `Protestantism.'"

Naturally. The alternative is unthinkable.

What's interesting to me is the behavior of the respective groups of converts. In general, those who swim the Tiber are seldom bitter nor do they embark on vitriolic crusades against their former denominations. I believe that's because their conversions are due to an acceptance of the Catholic credo and not due to a revolt against the beliefs of their previous churches. It's a positive progression in their lives, not a negation of another belief.

Those traveling in the other direction, on the other hand, seem to do so in protest, with anger and with a sense of having been victimized. This in turn leads to the sort of anti-Catholic screeds we see published on FR. It's not so much a "turning to" as a "turning away from" as far as I can see.

The Catholic Church is very good for you ladies and gentlemen, though you won't admit it. I truly believe that without it, there would be a serious void in your respective lives for you would have nothing to "protest" and rail against. It helps to fill up your existence. Indeed, opposition to what's happening in Rome, rather than enthusiasm for your respective professions appears to be your prime driving force..

[Petronski]

Presbyterians require an MDiv, including Greek and Hebrew (to read scripture in it's original language)...

No French (to read Cauvin in it's original language)?

[Petronski]

Hear hear!

[Petronski]

Whoops: “it’s” should be the possessive form “its”

[lastchance]

I read the article which you excerpted your post from. The author takes quotes out of context and makes assumptions based on what he thinks Scott Hahn believed not what Scott Hahn stated whe believed. He also decides without evidence that Scott Hahn has personality
disorders
“What sorts of people write autobiographies when they are healthy and well at 35? Generally there are three sorts: egotists, egomaniacs, and megalomaniacs.”
“One remark his wife makes in this book suggests that Hahn’s desire to be noticed is great: ‘Scott suffered tremendous loneliness. He was misunderstood and rejected by many Protestant friends who didn’t want to talk to him....’ “
“During his first years in Gordon-Conwell Seminary, 1979-81, Hahn suffered from a confused mental state: /At this point I would describe my study as a detective story. I was searching Scripture to discover clues as to the whereabouts of real Christianity’”
The above quotes are insulting in the extreme and I would protest if the story was a critique of a Catholic converting to Protestantism.

Rather than believing Scott Hahn’s reasons given in his books for his conversion the author assumes he knows the real reasons:
“The first of the reasons for Hahn’s conversion to Romanism is liberalism and Arminianism.”
The author nevers says just why this would lead to converting to RCC rather than a more liberal Protestant or even Unitarian denomination. Also his association in highschool with what the author terms an Arminian Evangelstic group Young Life can hardly be pointed to as a reason for converting to RC decades later. I once sang in a Methodist youth choir- I guess that makes me a future Protestant. Oh wait my inlaws are Protestant. I guess I am not Catholic after all.

The author is also very dismissive of Scott Hahn’s religious and spiritual experiences before he even considered converting. The author is also a mind reader and determined that if one has interests outside of theology one obviously is not really interested in theology
“While in high school, Hahn also became enamored of Luther and Calvin, apparently because they appealed to his need for heroes: ‘I decided the figures in Christian history who most appealed to me...were the great protestant reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin’ (5). But the theologies of Luther and Calvin seemed to play relatively small parts in Hahn’s thinking; he was fascinated by other things. A guitarist, Hahn liked modern music:”

The author gives as Hahn’s second reason for converting his study of St.Thomas Aquinas. Now maybe I am too naive but I think many Protestant pastors are well aware and have studied Aquinas. They did not find him the force for conversion. Perhaps Hahn had a different edition of his works? As to the RC philosophy of evidentalism I am not familiar with that so shall not comment.
“

The author does not give any rational defense of Protestantism rather he makes personal attacks against Scott Hahn for converting. He claims to know the reasons despite that they are contrary to the ones given by Hahn himself. He is scornful of any spiritual experiences related by Hahn insinuating they must have been invalid because of Hahn’s future conversion.

There are fortunately Protestant apologists who can make a good ( even though I disagree with them) argument for Sola Scriptura without resorting to the personal attacks of this author.

[AnalogReigns]

in her OWN POSTING she made clear that she lived in a convent wearing a habit for 2 years without making vows...and that the Catholic Encyclopedia itself acknowledges such novitiates are typically called "nuns."

What's fascinating is that if she had been a nun who had taken vows, the screams and yells of personal attacks (and denials that such a person could exist!) would be even louder--since you would scream how SHE BROKE HER VOWS!!!

I know this, if I were walking down the street with any Romanist friend and I said, "Hey look at that nun over there in the black habit..." he would look...and NOT respond "How can you POSSIBLY know she's a nun?"

So we have one personal testimony, who explains her use of the word "nun" clearly in her own posting...(while keeping it anonymous) and INSTEAD of engaging with the CONTENT of her writing, the screams are:

1-SHE TWEREN'T NO NUN!!! It ain't true! Don't listen to her!
2-Bringing up a famous Ex-(underqualified)Protestant ((non))Ordained (non)Rev. (Podunk)seminary (non)professor Roman Catholic apologist padding his resume with supposed big time evangelical Protestant qualifications (and publicized that way by all kinds of official Roman Catholic organizations) is OFF LIMITS!
3-AND all this, after months of clearly gloating "welcome HOME" articles about Protestants slipping into Rome, somehow one article about one little ex-2-year-novitiate-non-vow-taking-nun finding Jesus away from Rome is "Catholic bashing."