Posted on 03/15/2008 10:17:55 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper
More than once during these talks I referred to Luther and what always occurred to me as his destructive influence. I pointed out that even in such an admirable book as Rohan Butler's “The Roots of National Socialism” the spiritual origins of Nazism and Luther's influence had not been given the necessary importance. Then I was asked if I would be prepared to elaborate to them—about a dozen of the very senior boys, that is—my own views on Luther and Lutheranism. I agreed—with the proviso that they would be my own views and nothing else. Admittedly, I had read more on Luther and about Luther than on most other subjects. But I wanted to make it quite clear that I would not speak to them with the voice of a great authority, but would merely give them my own interpretation. I told them, moreover, that I should try to prove how dangerous it is to accept legends; and that the picture I had of Luther and his influence was thoroughly contradictory of the customary Luther of the legend.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicapologetics.info ...
Is that Latin for “cop-out”?
; )
Goodnight!
You wrote:
“Have those very liberal Rpman Catholics been excommunicated from the RCC for their support of abortion, for example?”
Abortion, although an old sin, is a new legal reality in the US. It has been legal only since 1973. The Church us always slow to develop a consistent policy in regard to new things - including to legal abortion (first legalized in teh western world in Protestant Iceland in 1947 by the way). Support for abortion is sinful, but not necessarily excommunicable in itself as things are commonly understood. Bishops should respond to pro-abort politicians by denying them the Eucharist.
How come it takes several posts to get you to come out this far? You guys are claiming this exclusivity but you don't even know The Gospel.
All Christians are supposed to know it. Luther who's taken a beating tonight knew it.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Here's what you are supposed to know that apparently your church didn't bother to teach you.
ICor. 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
ICor. 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
The Gospel is simple. Believe in Jesus. Believe your sin is forgiven at the cross. Believe Jesus rose from the dead.
Rom. 10:9: that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
I'm sorry this seemed to be so confusing. Resurrection Sunday is almost here you really should know The Gospel to understand it.
If you plan to mock the answer, why do you ask the question?
If you didn't know it, or were afraid to say it I would have told you. The easiest way to remember it is "Christ Crucified".
That is your personal interpretation of part of Scripture.
I wasn’t planning on mocking the answer. It just kind of worked out that way.
So the RCC does not let Kennedy, Kerry, etc., etc., participate in Communion?
But they are still members, in good standing, of the RCC, right?
Just wondering.
You wrote:
“I’m sorry this seemed to be so confusing. Resurrection Sunday is almost here you really should know The Gospel to understand it.”
Oh, we know the gospel and we understand it. We just find Protestant smugness of exclusive claims to the gospel to be rather silly to say the least.
That's "first of all," not "only of all".
The Gospel is simple. Believe in Jesus. Believe your sin is forgiven at the cross. Believe Jesus rose from the dead.
"Why do you call me Lord, Lord, but you do not do what I command?"
"Even the demons believe -- and tremble!"
If that were all there were to the Gospel, your Bible would consist of a 3x5 index card. Terrible that you've reduced the whole Christian message to what amounts to a slogan. You've been cheated out of so much.
Do you have a link by any chance? The time frame is interesting.
Come to any obedient, faithful Catholic Church on Good Friday and you'll get more of Christ Crucified than you'll get in 10 years of Sundays at a Baptist church.
Some folks fail to recognize love . . . because they have rarely walked a sacrificially loving path.
Some fail to recognize love . . . because they are so scared, mangled, depleted, hopeless . . . that they tend to rarely recognize love that is not wrapped in 12 layers of very soft foam rubber and rabbit fur.
Some folks fail to recognize love . . . because they don't recognize much of anything as remotely valid unless and until it CONFORMS to THEIR narrow, tidy tiny little boxed construction on 'reality.' Such folks also seem to major in !!!!CONTROL!!!! and !!!!TRADITION!!!! even if it's only their personal traditions or the traditions of the local club they have chosen to be a part of, for the moment.
Some folks fail to recognize love . . . because MAMMA or DADDY defined it differently and because MAMMA and/or DADDY were perfect examples of those who knew everything perfectly and implemented all truths flawlessly--everyone else is automatically wrong.
Some folks fail to recognize love . . . because their little IN-GROUP local club has !!!!TRADITIONALLY!!!! been very hostile to those not members of it--labeling all such as beyond the pale; ignorant; clueless; unloving; liars; idiots; heathen; reprobates; bound for hell . . . and the like--REGARDLESS OF THE FACTS!--particularly regardless of the facts from God's perspective.
Some folks fail to recognize Love . . . because they are so battered, bruised and obsessed with perfectionism that nothing and no one will ever measure up to their lofty standard--particularly them--so they can't allow anyone else to seem to measure up, either.
Some folks fail to recognize Love . . . because they are so bruised, angered, resentful, bitter and vengeful that it would take all the waves of the Pacific Ocean on all it's shores to wear down their granite hearts a sub-atomic particle's worth. And without being broken and contrite before God WITH NO PRECONDITIONS, RESERVATIONS OR WITHHOLDINGS . . . they will never have sufficient perspective from which to recognize Love.
Some folks fail to recognize Love . . . because they have decided that the "safest," easiest, most intellectually convenient construction on reality rules out all such hard to slice, dice, measure and manage things like EMOTIONS and the like. Better to be a sterile machine pretending that chaos plus time results in a fine cosmic watch that they can just pretend to be a well functioning gear in.
Others fail to recognize Love . . . because their local Pied Piper doesn't recognize Love and refuses to label Love as Love unless it came from his lips and graciousness. We could call this the Jim Jones blindness factor. But it happens in congregations of every flavor of Christian club around the world.
There are more reasons folks fail to recognize Love. But the major reasons is probably the refusal to walk intimately with Him who Is Love--fierce Love--Truth-In-Love . . . to be comforted by HIS LOVE AND to be disciplined by HIS LOVE.
Others of us too broken to refuse even the severities and fiercenesses of God's Love soak it up like ground the rain in Death Valley.
You wrote:
“So the RCC does not let Kennedy, Kerry, etc., etc., participate in Communion?”
Some bishops might, while others wouldn’t. Sadly the Church is not as populated with strict, orthodox bishops as it once was.
“But they are still members, in good standing, of the RCC, right? Just wondering.”
Actually Kennedy may not be. Kerry might not be either. The problem is they attend parishes in diocese that have become very liberal and their parish priests are weak in the faith and don’t enforce the rules.
“Perhaps we’re to believe Pinchas is not a “reputable historian.”
He was not an historian. He was an orthodox theologian/diplomat, Israeli Consul to Milan, who was more interested in getting recognition for the State of Israel than presenting accurate history. He did not do the original research but relied on others doing it in the Vatican archives. He went just far enough in his theology of the resurrection to ingratiate himself to the gentile powers that be but never accepted Jesus as divine so as to incur the wrath of the Orthodox Jews.
Slandering someone, and believing everything possible that is negative or evil about that person, and out-of-hand rejecting everything that might exculpate them ... is not "love".
Love, scripture tells us, rejoices in the truth.
We seem to be in different galactic clusters.
Evangelism by catch phrase is the silliest of all. But at least they've moved off of just "Christ crucified" and have now added believe in Jesus, believe your sin is forgiven at the cross, and believe Jesus rose from the dead. Now if they could just get the rest of it.
Barton talks about this at his excellent website:
“Immediately after these elections, in which the National Socialist Party had emerged as a major force, the bishop of Mainz excommunicated all Catholic members of the party in his diocese, and banned uniformed groups entering churches ((KG 12 and A R 166)). He also gave instructions that party members would not be allowed to take an official part in funerals and other services ((RD 8, 9 and 12)). The other bishops decided to await the annual bishops’ Conferences, so as to be able to formulate a united policy. In Rome the Osservatore Romano of October 11th 1930 commented: “Belonging to the National Socialist Party of Hitler is irreconcilable with the Catholic Conscience.” In his New Year message, Cardinal Bertram of Breslau condemned extreme nationalism, without specifying the Nazi Party ((KG 13)).” KG = Die Katholiken und das Dritte Reich, by Klaus Gotto, 1990.
Robert D’Harcourt wrote:
“The German Catholic bishops have quite recently, in a series of public declarations on which the clergy have not hesitated to act, stigmatised the leaders of the National Socialist Party as traitors who should be refused the sacraments. These instructions have not been withdrawn and are still being carried out. In these circumstances the Chancellor is reluctantly compelled to remain away from the Catholic service at Potsdam. During the celebration the Chancellor and the Propaganda Minister, Dr. Goebbels, placed wreaths in the Luisenstadt cemetery in Berlin on the tomb of their murdered comrades of the Storm Troops.” ((RD 72-5)).” RD = The German Catholics, by Robert D’Harcourt, 1939.
http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/rise(n)-1.htm
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