Posted on 03/15/2008 10:17:55 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper
More than once during these talks I referred to Luther and what always occurred to me as his destructive influence. I pointed out that even in such an admirable book as Rohan Butler's “The Roots of National Socialism” the spiritual origins of Nazism and Luther's influence had not been given the necessary importance. Then I was asked if I would be prepared to elaborate to them—about a dozen of the very senior boys, that is—my own views on Luther and Lutheranism. I agreed—with the proviso that they would be my own views and nothing else. Admittedly, I had read more on Luther and about Luther than on most other subjects. But I wanted to make it quite clear that I would not speak to them with the voice of a great authority, but would merely give them my own interpretation. I told them, moreover, that I should try to prove how dangerous it is to accept legends; and that the picture I had of Luther and his influence was thoroughly contradictory of the customary Luther of the legend.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicapologetics.info ...
Of course it should be noted that "Saint" Kolbe did not offer himself up in place of a Jew, but a non-Jew, and that prior to his arrest, Kolbe was an antisemitic editor of an antisemitic Catholic journal.
“According to the saying, we have to comply with the habit. The days are bad, people are worse, our acts more than bad. Up to now drunkenness has prevented me from writing, or reading anything readable; living with men, I had to live as they do.” It is abundantly clear that Luther liked drinking—and often not within reason. “I have brought on headache by drinking old wine in the Coburg, and this our Wittenberg beer has not yet cured. I work little, and I am forced to be idle against my will because my head must have a rest.” “If I have a can of beer, I want the beer-barrel as well”. “I am but a man prone to let himself be swept off his feet by society, drunkenness, the movements of the flesh” (W9, 215, 13). And again, “What is needed to live in continence is not in me”.
No, posted as a smear of Martin Luther - and by association, Protestantism - by obfuscating cause/effect and accusation of guilt by association.
It is not unusual for evil to justify itself by claiming would-be approval of prominent historical figures - while doing the grotesquely polar opposite of what that figure stood for. The core premise of the article amounts to blaming Jodi Foster for Ronald Regan's near-assassination because John Hinkley thought she would approve.
Godwinized from the start.
You should be ashamed for posting such dreck.
He did proclaim the Gospel and stand true for "God and Christ" (are you a Mormon?).
Various Jewish groups explicitly asked him to lay low and not make a public production out of chastising the Germans. All it did was lead to more reprisals.
Yes, Pope Pius XII was more concerned with saving Jewish lives than with justifying himself to history.
How about this: the failure of the Catholic Church as a religion is that they make up the rules as they go along, e.g., the new “sins” of pollution and stem cell research, etc. Whereas, Christianity is rooted in the the Word of God and it is unchanging.
lol. Right. A man, no doubt, who has nothing to lose by criticizing Rome.
Daniel Goldhagen is "everyone" now?
Getting one's scholarship trashed by Raul Hilberg is pretty indicting, IMO.
“I am but a man prone to let himself be swept off his feet by society, drunkenness, the torments of the flesh”(W9, 215, 13), I have quoted already. There are many similar passages. “Instead of glowing in spirit, I glow in the flesh.” “I burn with all the desires of my unconquered flesh”(Enders 3, 189). “I rarely pray. . . . My unruly flesh doth burn me with devouring flame. In short, I who should be a prey to the spirit alone am eating my heart out through the flesh, through lust, laziness, idleness, and somnolence.”
Of course, our old friend the Devil was to blame for it. “I know it well how it is when the Devil comes and invites the flesh.” “It is a horrible struggle; I have known it well and you must know it too; oh, I know it well when the Devil excites and inflames the flesh” (W9, 215, 46). What a painful confession when he exclaims, “Pray for me for I am falling into the abyss of sin” (Enders, 3, 193).
But, as we have seen before, he has always a very easy way out. It just does not matter whether we commit a sin or not. “You owe nothing to God except faith and confession. In all other things He lets you do whatever you like. You may do as you please, without any danger of conscience whatsoever.” Thus a remedy for his “burning flesh” is easily found. “The sting of flesh may easily be helped so long as girls and women are to be found.” “The body asks for a woman and must have it”; “to marry is a remedy for fornication” (see Grisar, “Luther”, vol. iv, p. 145).
Then post a thread about that, not about some bizzare laying of guilt on one person for what someone else did centuries later.
Hi, xzins! A bump to your excellent observation and a belated ping to my posts. 8~)
“The word and work of God is quite clear, viz. That women were made either to be wives or prostitutes” (W12, 94).
What happens to the woman is of no consequence to Luther. “Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child-bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children till they die, that is what they are there for”(E20, 84).
But the Reformer surpasses himself when he says: “If you do not want, someone else does. If the wife does not want, take your servant” (E20, 72).
From this is only a step to Luther’s permitting his followers “to satisfy their desires outside marriage, when they were not married, in order to give relief to natural feelings which they could not resist.” He says quite plainly: “It is not forbidden that a man should have more than one wife” (E33, 327.).
“St. Maximillian Kolbe who offered himself in place of another when they were taken to starve to death.
Of course it should be noted that “Saint” Kolbe did not offer himself up in place of a Jew, but a non-Jew, and that prior to his arrest, Kolbe was an antisemitic editor of an antisemitic Catholic journal.”
I forgot to mention that the OTHER side of my paternal family in Munich were Jews.
Friendlys can Freepmail if you want to know my Jewish name.
Don’t pull the anti-Semite card on me.
“Maximilian studied at Rome and was ordained in 1919. He returned to Poland and taught Church history in a seminary. He built a friary just west of Warsaw, which eventually housed 762 Franciscans and printed eleven periodicals (one with a circulation of over a million), including a daily newspaper.
In 1930, he went to Asia, where he founded friaries in Nagasaki and in India. In 1936, he was recalled to supervise the original friary near Warsaw. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, he knew that the friary would be seized, and sent most of the friars home. He was imprisoned briefly and then released, and returned to the friary, where he and the other friars began to organize a shelter for 3,000 Polish refugees, among whom were 2,000 Jews. The friars shared everything they had with the refugees. They housed, fed and clothed them, and brought all their machinery into use in their service.”
“, the community came under suspicion and was watched closely. Then, in May 1941, the friary was closed down and Maximilian and four companions were taken to Auschwitz, where they worked with the other prisoners, chiefly at carrying logs. Maximilian carried on his priestly work surreptitiously, hearing confessions in unlikely places and celebrating the Lord’s Supper.” SNIP
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Kolbe.html
THIS IS THE JEWISH VIRTUAL LIBRARY.
Thanks for the post and the ping.
If someone wants to honestly discuss Luther’s reformed teachings, and honestly trace the consequences thereof, great - so long as whatever bad is balanced with whatever good emerged.
Invoking Hitler by the third word of the _title_ is usually indicative of malice, whatever the subject.
Since when, in a theocracy, does a “secretary of state” not speak on behalf of that state’s leader as his mouthpiece?
It is obvious that came from the Pope. However, if the Pope had that “secretary of state” punished, I would then retract my statement.
Can you find that out?
The problem with Martin Luther was not his sinfulness because we are all sinful. His problem was that he thought he was Captain Kirk facing the Kobayashi Maru. He was so distraught at his inability to master temptation that he decided he needed to change the rules that had been in place for well over a thousand years. Don’t like the game...change it.
His name was Pinchas Lapide and he was a Canadian Jew, a British soldier in the Second World War (178th Transport Company, 8th British Army) and an Israeli diplomat and historian. His book is called Three Popes and the Jews.
You wrote:
“lol. Right. A man, no doubt, who has nothing to lose by criticizing Rome.”
What would he have to lose? First of all, he was mistakenly called the Israeli ambassador to Italy. Let’s say he was that. That’s Italy, not the Vatican. Second, he was actually consul to Milan, and not the Israeli ambassador to Italy. Also, he had looked to Pius XII as a hero since WWII so the idea that he came up with the 860,000 number out of thin air to stop from losing something as you so ignorantly asserted without any evidence whatsoever is just plain nonsense.
Just another ad hominem slam on an author whose conclusions challenge your preconceived ideas.
Thanks for the correction, vlad.
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