Posted on 03/11/2008 8:32:50 AM PDT by Dada Orwell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrVup9Dl4U
For over twenty years, "Patriot Pastor" Garrett Lear has strode the halls of New Hampshire's legislature...serving as a voice for his faith and his Revolutionary War ancestors. Today he talks with us about Real ID, the liberty deficit among Christians and his colorful outfit. Pastor Lear's church is in Wakefield, New Hampshire.
What do *you* think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?
I’ve seen enough Left Behind/Thief in the Night type movies that I know exactly what he’s gonna look like; Gordon Currie backed up by the forced of UNITE. :-)
According to one pop theory I won’t be here cuz, as a member of the bride of Christ, I’ll be caught up in the "great snatch".
But seriously, the Bible teaches that the "great tribulation" and the time of anti-christ are past events. It all happened to the generation that rejected Messiah and put Him on the cross. I cannot subscribe to the futurists theories because they do not generally fit with what is in the Bible.
Well, what you are saying is that, at least in the case of the harlot, there are definite cues given to John that it is not to be taken "literally". But this type of cue does not exist in the case of the woman in Rev. 12. In fact, it is quite possible for a strict literalist to take the woman as being Mary and be entirely consistent.
In fact there are many images in Revelation that do not have clearly identifiable cues that would require one to take them either literally or symbolically. The only thing that forces some folks to favor one over the other is the arbitrary assertion that literal is to be preferred over symbolic. I don’t happen to subscribe to that theory. It don’t believe it can be supported from the Bible.
And so when I read language like Rev. 20 about the "thousand years" I look in the rest of the Bible to see how big round numbers are used, and how they would sound to a person 2000 years ago knowledgeable of the Hebrew scripture. I turn to places like Psalm 50:10 where I read, "For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills." When God used phrases like "a thousand hills" He was not expecting that the Hebrew reader would go off and count out exactly one thousand literal hills and assign those and only those to God’s domain. The phrase "a thousand hills" was used to symbolize the fact that God’s domain is endless and covers the entire earth. I see the phrase "a thousand years" in Rev. 20 in much the same way. It is intended to symbolic the entire/complete time between the binding of Satan and the final vindication of God’s people. It is the time when Christ reigns on His heavenly throne and exercises dominion over the earth to bring many to salvation in Him. It is the same time outlined in 1 Cor. 15:25, "For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet."
One thing is certain, there is more work involved in comparing Scripture with Scripture to come up with the correct interpretation than it is to stick one’s finger in the air, throw darts at the possibilities, or glean insight from the New York Times in order to interpret it.
“True Christians can disagree on a pre-trib rapture, can they not?
I mean since the pre-trib belief did not come into existence in the Church until the 1800s, then for over 1,800 years, Christians did not see in Scripture a pre-trib rapture, and there are many respected theologians today who do not agree with it either.”
The “pretrib rapture” has been in the Bible since it was translated. It’s not something invented by man. If you don’t want ot believe that, you are not obligated to believe that. I simply see no reason to debate what is clearly in the Bible.
“True Christians can disagree on a pre-trib rapture, can they not?
I mean since the pre-trib belief did not come into existence in the Church until the 1800s, then for over 1,800 years, Christians did not see in Scripture a pre-trib rapture, and there are many respected theologians today who do not agree with it either.”
The “pretrib rapture” has been in the Bible since it was translated. It’s not something invented by man. If you don’t want ot believe that, you are not obligated to believe that. I simply see no reason to debate what is clearly in the Bible.
“I simply see no reason to debate what is clearly in the Bible.”
What to you is clearly in the Bible. Christians for over 1,800 years did not see what you believe you see. I’m not debating the belief. I’m questioning your accusation of “bordering on blasphemy.”
My point was, do you think they were not true Christians either?
I've never connected any of my DirecTV receivers to a phone line. I'm not watching anything blue.
Of course, everything seems to be either the antichrist channel, or the Mark of the Beast Network, but I think that's all I've ever gotten.
These things happen!
Maybe you can explain why the Catholic church believed the earth was flat, when it's described as a sphere in the Bible and they were supposed to be the experts on the Bible.
Consider Isaiah 40:22 which mentions the “circle of the earth.” This description is certainly fitting—particularly when the earth is viewed from space; the earth always appears as a circle, since it is round.
Curiously, many astronomy textbooks credit Pythagoras (c. 570–500 B.C.) with being the first person to assert that the earth is round. However, Isaiah is generally acknowledged to have been written in the 700s B.C.
The secular astronomers before the time of Pythagoras must have thought the Bible was wrong about its teaching of a round earth, yet the Bible was exactly right.
It's not my fault people don't want to believe what God puts forth in the Bible. Blame someone else for that - such as they people who REJECT what is in the Bible.
You: My point was, do you think they were not true Christians either?
It's not up to me to determine their eternity nor is it yours. If people want to believe the earth is still flat - I leave that up to God as to what He ultimately does about it. I would simply disagree with them.
“I’m questioning your accusation of “bordering on blasphemy.”
Question it all you want. Look up the word in a dictionary if you don't understand it and then apply it in context. Maybe then you'll understand. Also, I don't have “itching ears” so take your version somewhere else ... .
Those who know Jesus Christ as Savior will not be here during the time of God's wrath on those who have rejected Him.
God promised that those who love Him and have a personal relationship with Him will not go through the judgment of the Tribulation.
"Comfort one another with these words"...we won't be here!
Wow, are you defensive.
Disagreements on eschatology have always been around by strong Bible-believing, Bible-reading Christians. Sorry, but making an analogy of what we learn from science and what wisdom we receive from God as far as our understanding of Scripture is, to say the least, not a good analogy.
Such claims ring hollow in the absence of specific Bible texts to support them.
Such claims ring hollow in the absence of specific Bible texts to support them.
LOL!
A good starting point for you to get back on track is:
1Thes.4:17
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
One of many references to this.
It is your choice not to believe the Bible. People can only point things out to you. You are free to reject it too as you are doing. I see no reason to debate His word. I see no reason to supersede your opinion over His word.
It is true that scoffers and others will mock His word as well as pursuing their own lusts. We see that all the time ... . 2Pet.3:9 [3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, Don't be one of them. I do not see the need to debate YOUR opinion over God's Word and really wish YOU would respect that. If not, I will ignore you. Have a pleasant night.
Sorry. Hate to tell ya, but the rapture already happened, we're what's left.
That's happened to me with two churches where I thought I really had friends. It makes me sad, but then I didn't call any of them either.
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is nothing in that passage about a pretribulation rapture.
It is true that scoffers and others will mock His word as well as pursuing their own lusts.
I'm hardly mocking God when I question your unsubstantiated assertion. So please don't confuse an honest critique of your fallible and flawed position with scoffing against God. Such a notion is mere hubris and very unbecoming.
“I’m hardly mocking God when I question your unsubstantiated assertion. So please don’t confuse an honest critique of your fallible and flawed position with scoffing against God. Such a notion is mere hubris and very unbecoming.”
Well said.
I think the misinterpretation there starts when people forget that Paul was writing to the Thessalonians and not to them.
The East German secret police, as prominently featured in the flick "The Lives of Others" would have given up a gulag to have this sort of thing.
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