[Reno232]

You might find the following interesting in regards to your whole fraud ruse. If you’re an expert in these matters, I would certainly welcome your comments & refutation of the following article:

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Book_of_Abraham_201.html

Now really, you’re on a conservative site like the FR, & you take an article in the NYT as undisputed truth?

[MHGinTN]

The F.A.I.R. article you linked to, an astonishing piece of spin that! “It seems reasonable to conclude that Joseph may have believed that Abraham himself, with pen in hand, wrote the very words that he was translating.” AMAZING! Smith was not translating anything! He was fabricating something. The actual Egyptian writing was however later translated, and your peepstone false prophet was exposed for the fraud he always was. Amazing that so much effort is extended to whitewash such a black hearted man and the fables he produced.

[pby]

LOL!

Now really, you’re on a conservative site like the FR, & you take an article in the NYT as undisputed truth? Back in 1912, the NYT could recognize fraud and, at that point, they weren't, yet, participating in fraud.

It is a good article...did you read it?

[pby]

You wanted experts...here are some on the issue:

"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud." Dr. A.H. Sayce, Oxford, England

"I have examined the illustrations given in the 'Pearl of Great Price.' In the first place, they are copies (very badly done) of well known Egyptian subjects of which I have dozens of examples. Secondly, they are all many centuries later than Abraham." Dr. W.M. Flinders Petrie, London University

"Joseph Smith's interpretation of them as part of a unique revelation through Abraham, therefore, very clearly demonstrates that he was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian writing and civilization." James, H. Breasted, Ph.D., Haskell Oriental Museum, University of Chicago

"The 'Book of Abraham,' it is hardly necessary to say, is a pure fabrication." Dr. Arthur C. Mace, Assist. Curator, Metropolitan Museum of Art, NY, Dept. of Egyptian Art

"The plates contained in the 'Pearl of Great Price' are rather comical and a very poor imitation of Egyptian originals." Dr. John Peters, Univ. of Pennsylvania

"...the explanatory notes to his facsimiles cannot be taken seriously by any scholar, as they seem to be undoubtedly the work of pure imagination." Rev. Prof. C.A.B. Mercer, Ph.D., Western Theological Seminary, Custodian Hibbard Collection, Egyptian Reproductions.

"The Egyptian papyrus which Smith declared to be the 'Book of Abraham,' and 'translated' or explained in his fantastical way, and of which are three specimens are published in the 'Pearl of Great Price' are parts of the well known 'Book of the Dead.' Although the reproductions are very bad, one can easily recognize familiar scenes from this book." Dr. Edward Meyer, University of Berlin "A careful study has convinced me that Smith probably believed seriously to have deciphered the ancient hieroglyphics, but that he utterly failed. What he calls the 'Book of Abraham' is a funeral Egyptian text, probably not older than the Greek ages." Dr. Friedrich Freiheer Von Bissing, Professor of Egyptology in the University of Munich

[pby]

"Since 4 scholars, who have established that they can read Egyptian, say that the manuscripts deal with neither Abraham nor Joseph-- and since the 4 reputable men tell us exactly what the manuscripts do say -- I must conclude that Joseph Smith had not the remotest skill in things Egyptian-hieroglyphics. To my surprise, one of the highest of officials in the Mormon Church agreed with that conclusion when I made that very statement to him on Dec. 4, 1970--privately in one-to-one [c]onversation...

"The attempts, including Nibley's, to explain away and dodge the trap into which Joseph Smith fell when he had the audacity to translate the Chandler text, and keep the original Egyptian texts around, are absurd, in my view.

"My views are not for publication or spreading abroad. I am like you--maintaining membership because of the many fine things the Church offers. But facts speak for themselves. I offered the data available to my Stake Pres. recently and he walked away without it--saying he didn't want to read it. They can hardly excommunicate us when they won't look at the evidence.

Of course the dodge as to the Book of Abraham must be: 'WE DON'T HAVE THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT FROM WHICH THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM WAS TRANSLATED.' I conclude that we do have it and have translations of it." (Letter from Thomas Ferguson to Jim, dated March 13, 1971)

[Elsie]

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Book_of_Abraham_201.html

 

But they are NOT  an official arm of the LDS religion.

 

so, really, who CARES what they have to say?

 

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[Elsie]

Now really, you’re on a conservative site like the FR, & you take an article in the NYT as undisputed truth?

NOt now; but in 100 years, the article still has not been handwaved away by LDS, Inc.

[pby]

In Facsimile 2 are four mummy-like figures known--to Egyptologists--as the Sons of Horus. Their images were also on the canopic jars (the jars that stored the internal organs of the deceased) that we see under the lion couch scene in Facsimile 1. Joseph revealed that these four figures represented "this earth in its four quarters." According to modern Egyptologists, Joseph Smith is correct. The Sons of Horus "were the gods of the four quarters of the earth and later came to be regarded as presiding over the four cardinal points."19

Where did Joseph Smith reveal the translation about the canopic jars?

[pby]

In your referenced article it states:

"...but this is Facsimile 1, you can see Abraham on the lion couch."

But...

Egyptologists have identified the character on the lion couch as Orisis (not Abraham).

How do you deal with this contradiction?