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Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/22/2008 9:11:12 AM PST by Zakeet
They're called the "Lost Boys," the teenagers kicked out of their homes and communities by leaders of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives. Representative Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem), is running a bill to make this abandonment a felony.
"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes," Fowlke says. "What we were trying to do with this bill is criminalize this behavior and send a message to this community that they can't just throw away their children."
H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime. It also adds an enhancement if a parent or organization benefits from the child's abandonment to further an illegal enterprise, such as polygamy. This is the case with the FLDS church, says Roger Hoole, a lawyer who represents some of the displaced young men and sits on the board for the Utah Association for Justice. He says the church benefits from kicking out young men who would compete for plural wives. This, he says, has devastating consequences.
"There's a huge impact that's coming, like a tsunami, that's going to hit the state of Utah, when these boys get a little older and realize what has happened to them and get angry," Hoole says. "There's a real problem here."
Fowlke's bill gained unanimous support in a Senate committee this morning, and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.
Jesus was an educated theologian also
Jesus knows the Word better than some man who wants to water down rthe Gospel...
If Jesus said Believe and be saved..beleve not and be damned..Mark 16:16..then it’s Jesus I will listen to...
No mamby pamby watering down of the Gospel of Jesus Christ will change the words that Jesus spoke...
I just heard my pastor warn us about Mary Ann Williamson and her “course of miracles” which rejects Jesus and the cross and man is his own savior...
And now you’ve linked me to another false prophet...
If man is not under a sentence of eternal damnation then Jesus wasted His time coming and dying on the Cross to save us...
Agreed, TN. I came upon someone's post the other day, and wholeheartedly agree with what he noted and said:
Christ’s response even to satan was repeatedly . . .If we strive to be like Christ, we must also note what it is that Christ, Himself, did.“IT IS WRITTEN . . .”
If Christ would not stray from the Scripture . . . especially in that situation . . .
what cheek He must consider it when we do for the silliest, most UNBiblical . . . as well as evil reasons.
greccogirl I converted 25 years ago and have no desire to preach against other faiths but will if challenge point out the short coming and errors, elsewise let others seek their comfort zone of commitment.
It seems those who kick against the Church know they should be living those ordinances but love the ways of the world more.
Your educated theologian article is published by a source whose SITEMAP features: Friends of Barack Obama, an online Koran, a study of Christian sexuality, legal services for political activists, studies on biorhythms, and advice on how to repair your Ford Crown Victoria.
From the essay:
The correct understanding of John 14:6 is that Jesus is the gatekeeper to Heaven. Nobody gets to the Father, that is, gets into Heaven, except by being let in by Jesus. Jesus may let them in for whatever reasons He chooses. He is not required to let in only those who believe in Him [Please note, God will let in only those who accept the Lordship of Christ as He has stated clearly in His Word, for Jesus is both 'gatekeeper', and Bridegroom to The Church He has purchased. We'll address this further below, the timing of 'accepting' or having applied His Lordship and how God measures the heart to know this fact.]
The Biblical fact is this: belief in Jesus is the sure way to avoid Hell, but it is not necessarily the only way. Jesus Himself said that you can avoid Hell by doing good to other people out of love for them. This is the entire meaning of the Parable of the Sheep And The Goats. In this parable, there is no mention whatsoever of faith: it is pure works based on love. God accepts your good works toward others as if they were good works done to Him in love. He counts your love for others as righteousness (see Matthew 25:46, below).
Please note that these are not "works of the law" but works of love.
When I referred to the wedding garments, it is plain in scripture that no one will be at the wedding unless they are 'blood washed' or 'wearing the garment of His righteousness purchased with His blood'. The two significant groups at the wedding are the Bride and the guests, both there by way of His atonement on the cross. The difference in identifying the groups is derived from the life lived, whether dedicated to His Life transfroming the soul or not. The 'not' category who show up at the wedding feast have escaped Hell 'as by fire', where they were judged at the Great White Throne, their works were exposed to the purity of His righteousness and burnt up, but they escaped the fire because they had the heart to love others as themselves and love God (that means not only believe there is a creator God but that as an individual they had 'to do' with the Creator God as best they understood that 'doing' process).
To shorten this and cut to the chase, many in Heaven will be surprised to see Buddhists and Bahai's and Mormons and even Moslems at the wedding feast of the Lamb and His Bride, but you may be sure that God has some way to measure the heart of man, to determine whether that one will accept Christ's authority or not, and the where/when of that measurement may not be on this side of death, though we are certain from scripture that the measurement is done on this side of death for those who will be counted as His Bride. Without further explanation, it is misleading to state: 'The Biblical fact is this: belief in Jesus is the sure way to avoid Hell, but it is not necessarily the only way. Jesus Himself said that you can avoid Hell by doing good to other people out of love for them.' The acts of love done are the means by which God measures the heart of those who never had the opportunity to accept His Lordship on this side of death. That is why the Bible makes clear, 'now is the time, this is the hour, the Holy Spirit whispers, but will not always.'
Romans 10:14:
"How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?"
and in continuing:
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
their words to the ends of the world."
"I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;20 And Isaiah boldly says,
I will make you angry by a nation that has no
understanding."
"I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."
Can you tell me the where/when Jesus exited the tomb to? Can you tell me the where/when from whence Jesus came to join the disciples in the upper room after His resurrection? I can show you in the Bible how one becomes the Bride of Christ. Can you show me how one becomes a guset at the wedding feast in Heaven and not be ‘the Bride’?... God has a means by which He decides whom that list of guests includes. Can you tell me the criteria of that list?
“I am a christian, and belong to no particular denomination. I go by the salvation of the Bible that doesn’t mention Joseph Smith anywhere.”
The Bible doesn’t mention the word “Trinity”, nor its concept either. This doctrine was enacted by church leaders 200 years after the death of Christ at the Council of Nicea. And yet most churches consider it Gospel.
People have all kinds of reasons for believing what they do.
guset = GUEST ... darn old fingers.
ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANOTHER SECRET DOCTRINE PERSON!
Anty deed one does has a source for the impetus. If the heart is dark, acts of love and grace will not flow forth, though amny seemilngly 'good works' may be in evidnece. We have seen how such works are a source of pride to Mormonism adherents, as they have been taught to 'do all that they can do' to become worthy of what God intends to be received ONLY as a Gift else it is not Grace one receives but wages (according to the Apostle Paul).
The issue I thought I was addressing is related to the guests at the wedding feast. God has a means by which He measures the hearts of those who have never rejected the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ, for whatever reason that occurs. With millions and millions, prior to the birth fo Jesus only a very few could understand what this Grace entailed. Since the crucifixion of Jesus and the Resurrection, literally billions have been born and died without hearing the Gospel Goodnews of Grace in Christ.
Let's take a thought experiment: knowing the life lived by Stalin or Hitler, what is the liklihood that either of those evil men would accept with humility the Authority of Christ? Knowing the life of Pope John Paul, what is the liklihood that he accepted the authority of Christ? If we are given the extreme contrasts, even we can see that there is some measuring system by which God will separate the wheat and tares, the goats and sheep. But the measuring is not simple as we would like to believe for those not at the extremes. Yet we may be absolutely certain in our faith that God has a means by which He measures and applies the Blood of THE ONLY RIGHTEOUS ONE. No one will be in Heaven, as Bride or wedding guest unless God has applied The Blood of Christ for Grace to them.
It is written that Jesus, when the tomb was opened, an angel appeared to Mary Magdalene, and the angel told her that Jesus would appear before the Disciples in Galilee; He appeared to Mary Magdalene, and then to others, who did not recognize Him as they walked and spoke with Him, as His body was changed. He also met with the Disciples, appearing before them, as they met in fear because they had learned the Lord's body was missing from the tomb. After a time, He was caught up into heaven, where He now sits at the right hand of the Father.
Can you tell me the where/when from whence Jesus came to join the disciples in the upper room after His resurrection?
Jesus, from my understanding, revealed Himself to others, not just to all the Disciples. I have learned that it is possible that He appeared to others around the world; but I cannot point to any particular Scripture to state that emphatically.
Can you show me how one becomes a guest at the wedding feast in Heaven and not be ‘the Bride’? God has a means by which He decides whom that list of guests includes. Can you tell me the criteria of that list?
The invitation to the Wedding is given to "all who will come that are called by God." [Matt. 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen; for we have been "predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son" (Romans 8:29); Ephesians 1:5: He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will; there are other Scriptures which speak to predestination] (Matt. 22:9-10); in the particular parable about which we speak, the guests who do meet the demands of the King (God) (wearing Christ's clothes of righteousness) are asked why. Their response? "They are speechless." (Matt. 22:12) They have no excuse; and they are then removed from that place and thrown out from God's presence. Additionally, Christ has said that
Therefore, because it is Christ Who reveals Himself to others, upon whom God has given them the ability to have faith ("For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9;---even our FAITH is credit to God, not ourselves], the working of salvation is God's, not ours. Except that we are commanded to "go and tell."
The Parable of the Tares (Matt. 13:24-30) shows, by Jesus own words, that the field is the world upon which Jesus sows the good seed; the good seed, He says, is the "sons of the kingdom." (Matt. 13:36-38) But not every seed is planted by God, some are planted by the evil one. Therefore, though the harvest is to be done throughout the field (the world), not all were God's to begin with.
Was there a particular reason as to why you are asking me these questions? I have never represented myself to be a theologian or minister, but I have studied the word, and, though I do not have the ability to recall, with specificity, every scripture at a moment's notice for instantaneous recitation, my pastors/teachers have been those who I feel great fortune to have learned from, which include names of obscurity, to those such as Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel (when I was in high school), Pastor Ray Ortlund (now deceased) (as a young adult), and J. Vernon McGee (through his Thru the Bible Radio) (as a young parent). I feel these people have taught me sound doctrine.
the guests who do meet the demands of the King (God) (wearing Christ's clothes of righteousness) are asked why.
and should read:
the guests who do NOT meet the demands of the King (God) (wearing Christ's clothes of righteousness) are asked why.
Quick response to your new post I just scanned. I am NOT saying that those who do not receive the Gospel are NOT saved. God is a just God. I do not believe that those people who were never able to REJECT Christ will be held to account for something they could not do. I have also been taught that for those people who have NOT heard the Gospel concerning Christ (naturally, this would mean people who were born since He lived and died), that they will be judged according to their hearts/deeds/cultural norms/laws, and if they did what was "right" according to whatever standard it is that God may use to judge them through their own hearts and actions, etc.
I asked because of the intended posting ... before (timewise) Jesus ascends into Heaven, He tarried upon the Earth for many days following His resurrection. There is a where/when we are not privy to presently which is not Heaven, which is real, and which has far less temporal limitation than our current relam of existence. No one can say that those who die do not pass thorugh this realm and thus can be 'measured by God' during the transit. The wedding guests in heaven are only going to be there because His redemption has been 'graced' to them also, and they are not the Bride and we know how one can be counted amongst the Bride.
Here's a further interesting notion. If one familiarizes with the Jewish wedding party, the Bride has an entourage which goes out with her when the call to the wedding is proclaimed. The guests are yet another group called to the wedding feast.
After having now fully read this last post of yours, I agree with it all, most especially the above, concerning those who have never heard the Gospel.
You started #927 with ‘On the other hand’ as if to stand that post in contrast or disagreement with what I had offered. You’re confusing me now ...
This is what I have been taught, but again, I cannot recall with specificity anything more than what you said (or even where in Scripture it is mentioned at the moment).
Here's a further interesting notion. If one familiarizes with the Jewish wedding party, the Bride has an entourage which goes out with her when the call to the wedding is proclaimed. The guests are yet another group called to the wedding feast.
That would be interesting to explore (it seems to me that you have a great deal of knowledge and these kinds of things would be interesting if, at some point in time, you ever think of making a thread to discuss Jewish customs). I will make a point of rereading this area of Scripture. As you know, when you read the Word, different things are brought to your attention from between times of reading. The message received depends upon what it is that you are attending to at the time.
Because it seemed to me, that your post #926 was saying that works would satisfy entry into heaven....and then you later clarified what you meant; it is your clarification of meaning that I agree with.
Well, nic, looks like we sure killed this thread!
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