Posted on 02/10/2008 1:46:46 PM PST by wagglebee
A bishop described as "one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought" is now challenging the widely held belief that Christians go to heaven when they die.
N.T. "Tom" Wright, the fourth most senior cleric in the Church of England who has been praised for his staunch defense of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ, has published a new book in which he says people do not ascend to God's dwelling place. Instead, God will be coming back to Earth.
"Never at any point do the Gospels or Paul say Jesus has been raised, therefore we are we are all going to heaven," Wright told Time Magazine. "I've often heard people say, 'I'm going to heaven soon, and I won't need this stupid body there, thank goodness.' That's a very damaging distortion, all the more so for being unintentional."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
2. Context is lacking (see #1)
It's WND ... what'd you expect?
Wright and his followers have caused much mischief among the Reformed churches. Recently, the PCA considered expelling an entire presbytery over error caught from Wright. (The matter may have been resolved when the ringleader resigned from the denomination and took his church to another body where such error is tolerated).
It will be interesting to see how far down the path he leads folks.
Actually, in all fairness, he dismisses the idea that we all go to heaven, which has become a popular notion. In that respect he is correct. Do the Anglicans recognize Purgatory?
Most Anglicans do not recognize purgatory, although within the Anglican Catholic Church many do.
Here’s the answer to your question. All saints prior to Jesus’s resurrection were placed in “Paradise”. Nobody was permitted in heaven before Jesus. That’s why He said “Paradise” instead of “Heaven”. Paradise was separated from hell by a large chasm.
Right, so if everyone is dispatched to the relevent eternal place of abode as soon as they die, what is the day of Judgement all about?
You all raise some excellent points; however, the fact remains that (leaving aside any debates about Purgatory) it has NEVER been taught by the Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox that saved Christians would be denied entrance to Heaven prior to the Second Coming or Last Judgment.
Do you suppose this was factored in to his message?
Thanks for the PING...
I’m going to Heaven when I die...
But you dont have to call me a Christian...
Jesus told me to be a Believer...
Most Anglicans do not recognize purgatory, although within the Anglican Catholic Church many do.
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I was brought up in a High Anglican Church...
But we were never taught that purgatory was real...
I always understood it to be a Roman Catholic belief, only...
Thanks for the link. His actual statements are very much what I’d expected, as opposed to what the extracts attempted to convery.
“The fact remains that (leaving aside any debates about Purgatory) it has NEVER been taught by the Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox that saved Christians would be denied entrance to Heaven prior to the Second Coming or Last Judgment.”
I go by The Bible. The death/resurrection of Jesus is 100% payment for my sins. To say I won’t go to heaven would be calling God a liar. To say that I will spend time in a “Purgatory” would be saying that His death/resurrection is not 100% payment. His death and resurrection is 100% PAYMENT. This is hard to believe for many people.
If you read the Bishop's complete comments, you'll see that he says that those who are saved will be in the Presence of God from the time of their deaths. He's simply saying that this is not the "Heaven" commonly visualized in popular culture.
He then emphasizes the ultimate End of Time, the return of Jesus in glory, the resurrection of the living and the dead (the reunion of souls with bodies) and the New Heavens and New Earth restored through Christ.
I’m not interested in getting into a debate on the subject of Purgatory on this thread because I don’t believe that is what the bishop was talking about.
That being said, I am in agreement that saved Christians are in Heaven today and not awaiting the Second Coming or Last Judgment beforehand.
I may have to get the book and read it.
I’m prepared to be dubious about statements of a Church of England Bishop :-), but in this case, I didn’t find much in the interview to disagree with. His statements are Scriptural: “The souls of the righteous” (putting aside all arguments over who those “righteous” are) will be with God. However, the existence of the disembodied soul in God’s Presence isn’t the end. There will be the final Judgment, the Resurrection of all, and the re-created Heavens and Earth - not just “Heaven.”
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