We've explained that it's not the free pass you guys make it out to be, but nobody listens. POTS teaches that God will prevent His children from committing sin SUCH THAT it would cause the loss of salvation. It IS theoretically possible to lose salvation, but God promises it won't happen. THEREFORE, it is as good as impossible since God's promises are better than gold.
If (God forbid), Forest Keeper (e.g.) was of the selected elected elite and decided that he would spend the rest of his life murdering left handed Carmelite nuns simply because it occurred to him to do it, then he would go to the Reformed heaven regardless of his actions.
Nope. Either God would prevent it by changing my mind, or He would take me out before I took anyone else out, or I was never of the elect in the first place. Under these conditions I would have no reason to think I was going to Heaven.
Preaching the Gospel to the unelected still appears to me to be taunting them with blessings that they can never attain; preaching the Gospel to the elected is a waste since they are saved to the Reformed heaven no matter what anyone does or does not do.
No one can know who the elect and the unelect are, save God. Therefore, we treat everyone as presumptively elect and preach to everyone. That's what God tells us to do in the Great Commission. OTOH, the elect still have to believe and be saved within time. Therefore, preaching to them, whoever they are, is always worthwhile. Actions do matter.
I’m still not sure how God gets glorified with creating and then predestining human barbeques. Is it the thrill of the spectacle that so attracts the Reformed God?
God is glorified because they are used to fulfill His purpose, such as at the crucifixion. Perhaps some believe that the crucifixion was just a wild coincidence that happened to work out so that we could be saved. A random chance occurrence. I don't understand that thinking because it involves an unloving and extremely weak God, but in any event we say that God planned it all out well in advance, so He was glorified when it all came to fruition.
Not according to 1 Peter, and other biblical verses.
It IS theoretically possible to lose salvation, but God promises it won't happen
God promises those who come to Him on their own, who respond to His call. He doesn't hijack and He doesn't force anyone to love Him.
Either God would prevent it by changing my mind, or He would take me out before I took anyone else out, or I was never of the elect in the first place
Not according to Luther.
No one can know who the elect and the unelect are, save God. Therefore, we treat everyone as presumptively elect and preach to everyone
Who's "we?" The "elect?" I though you just said no one know who the elect are.
That's what God tells us to do in the Great Commission
Actually, that is not necessarily what He says. The Greek word used in the Great Commission is ethne, which also means "tribes,", the tribes of Israel (the lost sheep) in scattering (from the days of the Babylonian captivity), in Africa and Asia Minor. Remember that Jesus specifically says He was sent for the lost sheep of Israel and not the Gentiles.
OTOH, the elect still have to believe and be saved within time. Therefore, preaching to them, whoever they are, is always worthwhile. Actions do matter
If they are not saved then they are not elect. If they are "saved" they are "saved" and no amount of preaching or teaching or praying will change anything according to the Reformed theology.
Mark: I’m still not sure how God gets glorified with creating and then predestining human barbeques.
FK: God is glorified because they are used to fulfill His purpose
His purpose is to eternally torture those who had been condemned before they existed? What "God" is that? Baal?
Perhaps some believe that the crucifixion was just a wild coincidence that happened to work out so that we could be saved
It was a rescue, God's intervention. It was ushering the New Covenant, redemption of humanity. Do you suppose God planned the Flood too? Or does God just delight in premeditated drowning and killing in general?
A random chance occurrence. I don't understand that thinking because it involves an unloving and extremely weak God, but in any event we say that God planned it all out well in advance, so He was glorified when it all came to fruition
God gave man choices. It wasn't random. But if God planned everything than He is the author of everything, good and evil, and his name is probably Baal.
***We’ve explained that it’s not the free pass you guys make it out to be, but nobody listens. POTS teaches that God will prevent His children from committing sin SUCH THAT it would cause the loss of salvation. It IS theoretically possible to lose salvation, but God promises it won’t happen.***
You’ve explained it, but it still doesn’t make sense or have theological proofs.
***Either God would prevent it by changing my mind, or He would take me out before I took anyone else out***
Back to God the puppet master (sigh). In other words, you still have no responsibility for anything you do or don’t do.
***No one can know who the elect and the unelect are, save God.***
Hold on now. I have been told here on FR by a number of the Reformed that they are most definitely of the elect and therefore are going to Heaven and there’s nothing that anyone can do about that. Is this a different branch of Reformed theology?
***Actions do matter.***
How?
***God is glorified because they are used to fulfill His purpose, such as at the crucifixion.***
How were people used to fulfill His purpose at the crucifixion? I thought that Christ Himself was crucified. I guess I’m not understanding this. Could you clarify please?
***Perhaps some believe that the crucifixion was just a wild coincidence that happened to work out so that we could be saved.***
A strange belief indeed. I’m not aware of anyone who believes this.