[kosta50]

"Was no more" is perfectly consistent with being taken up without dying

If you say so. I think any reasonable person would interpret that as meaning that person was dead. Also, the phrase "God took him" is likewise an allegory for saying.

The Septuagint states (Gen 5:24), with my emphases:

And Enoch was well-pleasing to God, and was not found, for God translated him.

Yet the Hebrew Bible simply states verse 24 with four words (one is a repeat):

Chanok halak 'elohiym 'elohiym laqach

or, literally "Enoch walked God God took"

How does one come up with a whole sentence with that is beyond me.

More importantly, John 3:13 states

No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Either +John didn't know about Enoch or he didn 't read it as the author of Hebrews did.

Also according to Genesis, Enoch is the sixth generation of Adam; but in another place he is placed in the seventh:

It was also about these men that (A)Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam [Jude 14]

So, we have genealogical problems...again (like those of Matthew and Luke)?

In addition, Romans 5:12 and Hebrews 9:27 say that everyone must die.

So when you say that Enoch is a stand-alone statement and you believe it because it is scripture, you choose to ignore a whole lot of scripture to the contrary.

No, since scripture does not authenticate the Book of Enoch as being God-breathed. Hebrews is so authenticated

Jude is quoting from the Book of Enoch and Jude is scripture, FK. Or is it not scripture on Thursdays?

[kosta50]

Correction: Also, the phrase "God took him" is likewise an allegory for saying.

Sould read: Also, the phrase "God took him" is likewise an allegory for saying "he died."

[aruanan]

You're starting to look desperate and a bit like one of the characters from the final chapters of The Last battle.

Yet the Hebrew Bible simply states verse 24 with four words (one is a repeat):
Chanok halak 'elohiym 'elohiym laqach or, literally "Enoch walked God God took"
How does one come up with a whole sentence with that is beyond me.

Because languages are different, as in Greek in which one can say "to the women who departed" using a single word.


More importantly, John 3:13 states
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Either +John didn't know about Enoch or he didn 't read it as the author of Hebrews did.

Or what Jesus referred to as "heaven" was something else and doesn't have anything to do with Enoch's "translation".


Also according to Genesis, Enoch is the sixth generation of Adam; but in another place he is placed in the seventh:
It was also about these men that (A)Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam [Jude 14] So, we have genealogical problems...again (like those of Matthew and Luke)?

No problems. Telescoping of generations is common as is referring to an ancestor more than once removed as a father.


In addition, Romans 5:12 and Hebrews 9:27 say that everyone must die.

And yet Paul says that not everyone will die but that we will all be changed. And Hebrews doesn't say that everyone "must" die. It simply says that it's given to man but once to die and then face judgment. I guess by what you're saying Lazarus and others that Jesus raised from the dead must either have not "really" died, or must still be alive today and leading sinless immortal lives, or that the stories are just incorrect because Romans 5:12 and Hebrews say "that everyone must die."


So when you say that Enoch is a stand-alone statement and you believe it because it is scripture, you choose to ignore a whole lot of scripture to the contrary.
No, since scripture does not authenticate the Book of Enoch as being God-breathed. Hebrews is so authenticated
Jude is quoting from the Book of Enoch and Jude is scripture, FK. Or is it not scripture on Thursdays?

And Paul quoted Greek poets and his writings are considered scripture but the works by those poets are not. Need I point out what you are doing or failing to do? Come out of the dark interior of that tent.

[Forest Keeper]

I think any reasonable person would interpret that as meaning that person was dead. Also, the phrase "God took him" is likewise an allegory for saying [that he died].

Sure, it's possible, but not definite. The totality of scripture clears that up for us.

More importantly, John 3:13 states "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." Either +John didn't know about Enoch or he didn't read it as the author of Hebrews did.

Verse 12 gives us the context:

John 3:12 : I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Verse 13 means that no one has the authority to speak of Heavenly things except for Christ. Only Christ has been in Heaven, known Heavenly ways, and come down to earth to tell us about them.

Jude is quoting from the Book of Enoch and Jude is scripture, FK. Or is it not scripture on Thursdays?

Just as Aruanan rightly pointed out, quoting from an extra-scriptural work in no way authenticates the entire work. I am sure the Fathers quoted from sources that they did not agree with in toto.