Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kosta50; aruanan; HarleyD; annalex; stfassisi; Kolokotronis
I think any reasonable person would interpret that as meaning that person was dead. Also, the phrase "God took him" is likewise an allegory for saying [that he died].

Sure, it's possible, but not definite. The totality of scripture clears that up for us.

More importantly, John 3:13 states "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." Either +John didn't know about Enoch or he didn't read it as the author of Hebrews did.

Verse 12 gives us the context:

John 3:12 : I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Verse 13 means that no one has the authority to speak of Heavenly things except for Christ. Only Christ has been in Heaven, known Heavenly ways, and come down to earth to tell us about them.

Jude is quoting from the Book of Enoch and Jude is scripture, FK. Or is it not scripture on Thursdays?

Just as Aruanan rightly pointed out, quoting from an extra-scriptural work in no way authenticates the entire work. I am sure the Fathers quoted from sources that they did not agree with in toto.

5,464 posted on 05/09/2008 2:41:24 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5416 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper; aruanan; HarleyD; annalex; stfassisi; Kolokotronis
Verse [John 3:] 13 means that no one has the authority to speak of Heavenly things except for Christ

FK, this is one of those simple and unambiguous verses where "deeper" meaning is not necessary. It simply says that no one has ascended into heaven except the One who came from it.

Just as Aruanan rightly pointed out, quoting from an extra-scriptural work in no way authenticates the entire work.

Aruanan's example is comparing apples and oranges. Jude 14 quotes Enoch as a prophesy. Other NT references (which I listed in my reply to Aruanan) deal with popular (not even religious) phrases of Greek poets. Big difference.

Early Christianity considered the Book of Enoch as scripture. The ancient and very much unchanged Ethiopian Orthodox Church does to this day and is part of their canon.

When Jude quoted a prophesy from that book, it was at the time when the Book of Enoch ranked prominently among Christians, the way the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas did. We know they did because they are part of the canon of the oldest (mid 4th century) extant Christian Bible.

Historical context, dear friends, trump popualr opinions. Saying the Book of Enoch was not quoted as scripture is simply a rationalzation to keep the Bible "pristine" based on the preconceieved notion that it is, because the whole Protestant error rests on that preconceived notion.

5,484 posted on 05/10/2008 7:13:22 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5464 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson