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To: Forest Keeper; aruanan; HarleyD; annalex; stfassisi; Kolokotronis
Verse [John 3:] 13 means that no one has the authority to speak of Heavenly things except for Christ

FK, this is one of those simple and unambiguous verses where "deeper" meaning is not necessary. It simply says that no one has ascended into heaven except the One who came from it.

Just as Aruanan rightly pointed out, quoting from an extra-scriptural work in no way authenticates the entire work.

Aruanan's example is comparing apples and oranges. Jude 14 quotes Enoch as a prophesy. Other NT references (which I listed in my reply to Aruanan) deal with popular (not even religious) phrases of Greek poets. Big difference.

Early Christianity considered the Book of Enoch as scripture. The ancient and very much unchanged Ethiopian Orthodox Church does to this day and is part of their canon.

When Jude quoted a prophesy from that book, it was at the time when the Book of Enoch ranked prominently among Christians, the way the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas did. We know they did because they are part of the canon of the oldest (mid 4th century) extant Christian Bible.

Historical context, dear friends, trump popualr opinions. Saying the Book of Enoch was not quoted as scripture is simply a rationalzation to keep the Bible "pristine" based on the preconceieved notion that it is, because the whole Protestant error rests on that preconceived notion.

5,484 posted on 05/10/2008 7:13:22 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; aruanan; HarleyD; annalex; stfassisi; Kolokotronis
FK, [John 3:13] is one of those simple and unambiguous verses where "deeper" meaning is not necessary. It simply says that no one has ascended into heaven except the One who came from it.

Well, since I do not believe that God inspires error, I have to look at the context of the verse to see what it is really talking about. :)

FK: "Just as Aruanan rightly pointed out, quoting from an extra-scriptural work in no way authenticates the entire work."

Aruanan's example is comparing apples and oranges. Jude 14 quotes Enoch as a prophesy. Other NT references (which I listed in my reply to Aruanan) deal with popular (not even religious) phrases of Greek poets. Big difference.

What's the difference? God's inspired Scripture authenticates that particular prophecy to be true, but it does not authenticate the whole work. There is no rule that says a prophecy MUST first appear in scripture to be true (the Orthodox Church's view of what scripture IS notwithstanding). It just MUST appear in scripture to be sure it is true. Just because a book is not scripture does not mean that all of it is automatically false. Luther took that approach with the Apocrypha.

Historical context, dear friends, trump popular opinions.

But SOME popular historical Christians do NOT trump God. :)

5,508 posted on 05/12/2008 9:31:11 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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