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To: kosta50; aruanan; HarleyD; annalex; stfassisi; Kolokotronis
FK, [John 3:13] is one of those simple and unambiguous verses where "deeper" meaning is not necessary. It simply says that no one has ascended into heaven except the One who came from it.

Well, since I do not believe that God inspires error, I have to look at the context of the verse to see what it is really talking about. :)

FK: "Just as Aruanan rightly pointed out, quoting from an extra-scriptural work in no way authenticates the entire work."

Aruanan's example is comparing apples and oranges. Jude 14 quotes Enoch as a prophesy. Other NT references (which I listed in my reply to Aruanan) deal with popular (not even religious) phrases of Greek poets. Big difference.

What's the difference? God's inspired Scripture authenticates that particular prophecy to be true, but it does not authenticate the whole work. There is no rule that says a prophecy MUST first appear in scripture to be true (the Orthodox Church's view of what scripture IS notwithstanding). It just MUST appear in scripture to be sure it is true. Just because a book is not scripture does not mean that all of it is automatically false. Luther took that approach with the Apocrypha.

Historical context, dear friends, trump popular opinions.

But SOME popular historical Christians do NOT trump God. :)

5,508 posted on 05/12/2008 9:31:11 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; aruanan; HarleyD; annalex; stfassisi; Kolokotronis
Well, since I do not believe that God inspires error, I have to look at the context of the verse to see what it is really talking about

So, then you are telling me that you are conforming the Bible to your (a priori) belief? Talk about stuffing God into a box!

God's inspired Scripture authenticates that particular prophecy to be true, but it does not authenticate the whole work

As a matter of principle, as you suggetsing now that God revealed His prophesies to someone who is not a prophet of God?!?

What constitutes "scriptures," FK? What the Church says? What Luther says? What SBC says? Scripture is many things to many people with only the pre-existing individual or communal faith as the "authenticating" authority of what constitutes scripture.

There is no rule that says a prophecy MUST first appear in scripture to be true (the Orthodox Church's view of what scripture IS notwithstanding)

How consistent is it to believe that God would be revealing prophesies to anyone except those He considered His prophets? If the author of the Book of Enoch was revealed a prophesy from God, then he is God's prophet and, if you believe the prophesy, then it is scripture, FK!

The scriputre rule is very simple: if the Bible expresses what the Church believes, then it is scripture. In other words, the biblical canon are those books that reflect the faith, not the other way around, FK! That's how the Church decides. First comes the faith, then the Bible, based on faith. The Bible does not give you faith; the faith gives the Bible.

This is what I have been harping about for the longest time now: the Bible is a mixture of popular beliefs (myths, legends, narratives) and prophesies believed to be true.

But, as far as quoting the prophesy from the Book of Enoch in Jude is concerned, if prophesies are true in the absolute sense they could be true only if God revealed them, and if He revealed them to someone, that makes that person a prophet of God and His Apostle, whether we believe it or not.

5,512 posted on 05/12/2008 11:41:41 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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