Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Nope. That's not what I want and not what I am doing, or was doing.
I am discussing a pattern of behavior and the interpretation it suggests and the pathologies with which it is similar. I did so publicly because I expected that doing so would provoke more pronouncedly symptomatic behavior. In this I was correct.
Having been diagnosed by Quix more than once and having been told that Marian devotion has a neurotic basis (complete with a graphic of the book jacket presented) I would have thought this was acceptable. But the rules here suppose or demand a logical absurdity: namely that an attack on all the members of set is not an attack on any particular member of a set.
I may say, "Catholics are fools and scoundrels" and "You are a Catholic." But you must respond as though syllogistic verities did not apply here.
Further, an appeal by your side for "dealing with the question" is laughable on its face. I have already shown why by describing what happens when a Catholic tries to "Deal with the question" and many posters here, not naming names at all, then demonstrated precisely what I was describing.
That's the problem with relying on human reason and human assumptions when trying to fathom the working of God. If you'll pardon the personal aside, I have direct experience to tell me that your statement is wrong.
I was an unbeliever, and the Holy Spirit spoke to me -- before I believed in Jesus Christ. And I can very precisely point to the moment where the Holy Spirit convinced me to believe in Jesus Christ.
I think you'll find that a lot of adult converts will tell you the same thing.
The problem with your take on things is that you're reducing God to a mechanical phenomenon -- do X, and Y occurs. But as the Bible shows time and time again, God works as He will, and not necessarily as we'd expect Him to work.
Oh, Mark, my heart grieves for you.
The Holy Spirit is alive and well and indwelling every one of Christ's sheep, by the grace and purpose and mercy of God alone.
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" -- Luke 11:9-13"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
It's the gift of Holy Spirit within us that even makes you want to knock at the door of Christ. If you don't believe Christ's promise to you, would you believe Augustine?
"The nature of the Divine goodness is not only to open to those that knock, but also to cause them to knock and ask." "The grace of God does not find men fit to be elected, but makes them so..."
This is the expressed purpose of the Holy Spirit -- to open our eyes and ears and give us a new heart and lead us in sanctification toward obedience and gratitude to Jesus Christ alone.
If you miss that, you've missed so much.
This was one of the primary goals of the Reformation -- to restore the Holy Spirit in the church and in men's minds to His rightful place as the means and method of men receiving God's grace through faith in Christ. The reformers went back to the Bible and read for themselves that the gift of the Holy Spirit is given to individuals who then make up the church of God on earth. Rome has worked to usurp the role of Holy Spirit for centuries.
As if it possibly could.
Thankfully, we have God's word that the Holy Spirit is not "beyond us," but within us by the grace and purpose and will of God alone.
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" -- 1 Corinthians 6:19
Paul is asking YOU that question, Mark.
Freepmail is the email service provided on Free Republic by FR software - as compared to the usual email services such as hotmail.com
Who gave you the ability to repent?
Who gave you your faith?
AMEN... It really is just as simple as that.
To God belongs ALL the glory.
AMEN, FK!
This forum has been a bountiful witness to Christ risen and has provided me with more instruction and Christian fellowship and confidence in His word and abiding love than I ever imagined possible on the internet.
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?" -- Psalm 18:30-31"As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
That sure says a lot about something.
Next time you tell us you're "not a Catholic" and that Bible-believing Christians "are wrong," your remarks will be considered by the light of your refusal to say just who and what you are.
How is this not making it personal, the idea that I either post drunk or drink for inspiration? Weren't you also the one that made a rude disparaging remark on this thread about Dr. Eckleburg being a woman?
This is untrue and was expressly denied by the Catholic Church many long centuries before Martin Luther and Jean Calvin were puling infants.
[snip]
How about heading over to New Advent and finding out what they ACTUALLY say....
Very well:
On Sola Fide:
The subjective principle of the Reformation is justification by faith alone, or, rather, by free grace through faith operative in good works. It has reference to the personal appropriation of the Christian salvation, and aims to give all glory to Christ, by declaring that the sinner is justified before God (i.e. is acquitted of guilt, and declared righteous) solely on the ground of the all-sufficient merits of Christ as apprehended by a living faith, in opposition to the theory — then prevalent, and substantially sanctioned by the Council of Trent — which makes faith and good works co-ordinate sources of justification, laying the chief stress upon works. Protestantism does not depreciate good works; but it denies their value as sources or conditions of justification, and insists on them as the necessary fruits of faith, and evidence of justification.
This is also why, using New Advent, your faith remarks (see justification) that Protestanism does believe "the observance of the moral law is not necessary either as a prerequisite for obtaining justification or as a means for preserving it." This is, of course, in contrast to Catholic belief that observance to the law is a prerequisite for obtaining justification and a requirement for keeping it.
Also note this (also under justification):
arbitramur enim iustificari hominem per fidem sine operibus legis
Obviously, the distinction is drawn:
This is the TRUTH: A man is declared just without works of the law. God himself meets His OWN demands for righteousness and then graciously gives man what is required. This is why, as Reformers, we can boldly declare that Christ became for us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. The Father made the Son who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ. It is in Christ we have our sole hope.
This is in contrast to blasphemous beliefs that Christ is involved but we must act and co-operate (notice that it is a co operation) and then keep ourselves (with help) in a justified state. It is man working with God to secure his own salvation. It is merely teaching a delusion that man can add anything to the merits of Christ.
Rome is nothing but sinking sand and sand castles.
God justifies the UNGODLY. This is the gospel. Righteousness shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. We are Reformers and this is our message, the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rome is welcome to repent and join us in the glorious light of Christ and be no more a brother laboring under sin and falsehood.
Rome needs to repent of bowing before idols
Rome needs to repent of praying to the dead
post tenebras lux
***What are you — high inquisitor?***
I second the nomination of Dr. Eckleburg as Mistress High Inquisitor of all things Catholic.
As a good Presbyterian, I move for a vote.
There is nothing wrong with inventing a term - whether "sado-evangelism" on the on hand or "magicsterical" on the other.
Nor is there anything wrong with posters practicing without a "license" whether psychology, theology, philosophy, science or whatever.
But I will not allow a flame war to ignite on the forum - and that includes carrying over a Freepmail flame war to the open forum. An academic discussion, however, is fine.
The bottom line to preventing flame wars is the guideline: discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
Let all God's children praise Him for His wonderful mercy and finished work at Calvary!
AMEN! Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." -- Romans 5:8-11"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." -- John 17:17
"As to Augustine, you must have seen some of Harley's posts concerning Augustine's retractions, when they were, and what he was retracting. As I understand it, in many cases, Augustine's "final" answers were what Calvin and Luther were quoting from in support of their writings.
AMEN! Kind of like assuming we can understand "Kill Bill 1" if we haven't seen "Kill Bill 2."
Or understand the Old Testament if we haven't read the New Testament.
The process is interesting, but the complete and finished product is what counts.
Yes, it does: that you demand to know my denomination is pretty conclusive proof that you hold yourself out in the role of inquisitor. My religious affiliation is no secret at FR or elsewhere. You can go look it up, if you so desire. But my denominational affiliation is also very much irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The only thing you need to know, is that I'm not a Catholic defending my own denomination. And from that you're supposed to learn that denomination is not the defining feature of Christian brotherhood. But you refuse to learn, apparently.
Next time you tell us you're "not a Catholic" and that Bible-believing Christians "are wrong," your remarks will be considered by the light of your refusal to say just who and what you are.
I don't say that "Bible-believing Christians" are wrong. Then again, that doesn't mean that someone who professes to be "Bible-believing" is necessarily correct, either.
I will admit to despising the term, however, as it tends to be used by those who portray themselves as being the only folks who actually believe the Bible. This thread, and your participation in it, provide many fine examples of it. But here's the rub: it's quite clear that you don't have an exclusive lock on Biblical truth.
I knew you were gonna try to explain it all away. No dice.
AMEN! It is God-given faith in the completed work of Christ risen from the cross.
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