How is this not making it personal, the idea that I either post drunk or drink for inspiration? Weren't you also the one that made a rude disparaging remark on this thread about Dr. Eckleburg being a woman?
This is untrue and was expressly denied by the Catholic Church many long centuries before Martin Luther and Jean Calvin were puling infants.
[snip]
How about heading over to New Advent and finding out what they ACTUALLY say....
Very well:
On Sola Fide:
The subjective principle of the Reformation is justification by faith alone, or, rather, by free grace through faith operative in good works. It has reference to the personal appropriation of the Christian salvation, and aims to give all glory to Christ, by declaring that the sinner is justified before God (i.e. is acquitted of guilt, and declared righteous) solely on the ground of the all-sufficient merits of Christ as apprehended by a living faith, in opposition to the theory — then prevalent, and substantially sanctioned by the Council of Trent — which makes faith and good works co-ordinate sources of justification, laying the chief stress upon works. Protestantism does not depreciate good works; but it denies their value as sources or conditions of justification, and insists on them as the necessary fruits of faith, and evidence of justification.
This is also why, using New Advent, your faith remarks (see justification) that Protestanism does believe "the observance of the moral law is not necessary either as a prerequisite for obtaining justification or as a means for preserving it." This is, of course, in contrast to Catholic belief that observance to the law is a prerequisite for obtaining justification and a requirement for keeping it.
Also note this (also under justification):
arbitramur enim iustificari hominem per fidem sine operibus legis
Obviously, the distinction is drawn:
This is the TRUTH: A man is declared just without works of the law. God himself meets His OWN demands for righteousness and then graciously gives man what is required. This is why, as Reformers, we can boldly declare that Christ became for us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. The Father made the Son who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ. It is in Christ we have our sole hope.
This is in contrast to blasphemous beliefs that Christ is involved but we must act and co-operate (notice that it is a co operation) and then keep ourselves (with help) in a justified state. It is man working with God to secure his own salvation. It is merely teaching a delusion that man can add anything to the merits of Christ.
Rome is nothing but sinking sand and sand castles.
God justifies the UNGODLY. This is the gospel. Righteousness shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. We are Reformers and this is our message, the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rome is welcome to repent and join us in the glorious light of Christ and be no more a brother laboring under sin and falsehood.
Rome needs to repent of bowing before idols
Rome needs to repent of praying to the dead
post tenebras lux
To me, I like the notion of co-operating with God to make myself, with His help, justified. After all, it all comes down to the notion of whether or not it’s “human” to sin.
Adam was not created to sin. This is classic, historic Christian teaching. It wasn’t until the “Reformation” that people started to teach about the “sin nature” and imply the “flesh is useless”. God forbid! Something God creates is “useless”?
No. God created Adam to be sin-LESS. Unfortunately, Adam succumbed to the temptations of the devil and sinned the first sin. This first sin, which we in the West call “Original Sin” stains not only the soul but also the human “nature”. Even though it’s washed away in Baptism, its affect on the soul and body remains. It ACTUALLY MAKES US, LESS THAN FULLY HUMAN.
This is why (or at least one of the reasons why) we, who believe in the Triune nature of God, say Jesus was “Fully Human”. He was (for one reason) fully human PRECISELY BECAUSE He did NOT sin. That’s also why He’s called the Second Adam. He was, what Adam was not: A fully human person because He didn’t sin, whereas Adam DID sin. Adam’s sin made him less than human. Jesus’ sinlessness made him fully human.
So, returning back to the differing notions of “justification” that the Church holds and Protestants hold, to me at least, the notion that God will help us become MORE human, not LESS human which is what we are when we sin, by co-operating with Him through our good works, this notion is appealing for what should be, IMO, obvious reasons.
Put another way, isn’t the promise that as long as we cooperate with God, we can be like Adam was SUPPOSED to be, appealing? That is, FULLY HUMAN, and not some subhuman creature who’s a slave to his sin. What a wonderful promise! How appealing that is! So much more appealing than some general, forensic promise of “Just say the Lord’s prayer and you’ll be fine. You can never be a TRUE human being, but hey, neither can anyone else, so quit worrying about it. Quit trying to strive for perfection, and just accept your lot in life.”
It is the desire of the heart (the Biblical heart here, not mere emotion but the entire being) to be something more, to have more, to desire the infinite. God created us like this so we would know Him, since He is the only one that CAN offer us this infinite we desire. And the desire to TRULY be like Him (vis a vis “sinlessness”) is part of this desire for the infinite. The only way that desire is fulfilled is through the promise the Church offers, not some shallow imitation thereof, that only says, “You can never be fully human; you can only be a shadow of what God ever wanted in the human being.”
Besides, we read in Revelation that “nothing unclean can enter Heaven”. A dung heap covered in snow is still unclean.
***Have a little more out of that bottle.***
It is the medicine to cure the Church of her blasphemy.
Question: Upon what grounds is a man justified?
In Luther's day, the answer began with God and ended with man. What he saw made him nauseated when he journeyed to Rome. But, the Lord used it to provide the Church with the cure in a "bottle." We are the Reformed and we have the cure for what ails the Church in Rome. We have the gospel....
I am in Christ Jesus who became for me wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and REDEMPTION.
***How is this not making it personal, the idea that I either post drunk or drink for inspiration?***
Did I post either statement? Did I give the general idea? Maybe you’re reading into it what is not there. I know what I posted.
***Weren’t you also the one that made a rude disparaging remark on this thread about Dr. Eckleburg being a woman? ***
I don’t believe so. I think that women are equally as responsible or irresponsible about their beliefs as men are.
***Reformed: declared righteous, a.k.a. “Forensic Justification,” Sola Fide, alien righteousness, etc.
Catholic: made righteous, a.k.a. in their OWN person. ***
Nice to see that you’ve grasped some of the ideas there. Keep it up. You may wind up swimming the Tiber; there is the hope of Peter and Paul for you yet.
Rev 21:
23
The city had no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gave it light, and its lamp was the Lamb.
24
The nations will walk by its light, and to it the kings of the earth will bring their treasure.
25
During the day its gates will never be shut, and there will be no night there.
26
The treasure and wealth of the nations will be brought there,
27
but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Nothing unclean (unholy) will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Therefore one MUST be made holy or righteous. Not merely be declared it.
***God justifies the UNGODLY.***
Very good. Unlike the Reformed, we Catholics take that very seriously. We are His creatures; He is our Creator.
***Your objection is a fiction and you really ought to not accuse others of being on a bottle when they obviously know exactly what they are talking about. ***
I take Scripture, the Catechism and the Church Fathers to be of greater worth than anything that I can add to. Methinks that thou doth protest too heartily about bottles.
I’d suggest a reading of Matthew 5-7 to go along with your newfound verses.
Seeing that I am unaware that Trent has been repealed as FALSE I assume that we can still believe that the Churche's statements on justification still stand. And, that statement being that faith and works are "co-ordinate" sources of justification because a man must be made righteous in his own person. But, really, we need look no further than the Catholic's OWN definition which discusses exactly as I said, the transformation from unrighteousness to righteousness. This is why Catholics use the phrase habitus justificationis, the STATE or habit (literally) of justification. This is in his own person, not in the person of Christ. The person himself must be in a state of righteousness in order to be declared just by God, which the Catholic church at least, thankfully, does still attribute that solely to God.
AMEN! The heart of the reformation was redirecting the true meaning of justification away from men and works and to lay it entirely at the foot of the cross where Christ has paid the ransom for our sins in full.
This is the TRUTH: A man is declared just without works of the law. God himself meets His OWN demands for righteousness and then graciously gives man what is required. This is why, as Reformers, we can boldly declare that Christ became for us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. The Father made the Son who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ. It is in Christ we have our sole hope.
AMEN! I pray for God to give this assurance to those who are still locked in a battle with themselves to redeem themselves. Ain't going to happen.
God justifies the UNGODLY. This is the gospel. Righteousness shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. We are Reformers and this is our message, the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rome is welcome to repent and join us in the glorious light of Christ and be no more a brother laboring under sin and falsehood.
AMEN!
To God be ALL the glory now and forever, world without end.