Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
I asked "How many times did God raise Jesus?"
The truth is, the original Greek doesn't have "again" in it:
Is it a mistake?
This is not going "after the bible" as you say FK; it is simply showing that the Bible if full of such little "holes." And I intend to continue doing this, as there seems to be an endless supply of such examples.
It's hard to pretend that, despite being full of "holes" it is somehow the "pristine" word of God. Without the Church, which is the deposit of the faith taught correctly form the beginning, simply reading the Bible comes with the "holes" and all.
Her random verse generator doesn't recognize all the verses, such as
The economic "role" of the Holy Spirit in Incarnation was to cleanse Mary's flesh and make her a worthy vessel, the way the Holy Spirit cleanses the bread and wine and makes it the pristine Body and Blood of Christ.
What God "touches" becomes pristine and perfect. So, the material doesn't matter. Adam was made of clay and is fully human even though he didn't have a mother! Why would Jesus be any less human if he took Mary's human nature (the meaning of Mary's "flesh" in this case)?
Plus, if Mary was only a surrogate then prophecy is broken since Jesus did not come from the Davidic line. "Son of David" would be a complete lie.
Jesus' Davidic line is as wishy-washy as it gets. His genealogies don't match, and Jesus denies it Himself when He says "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?..."For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother." [Mat 12:48, 50]
In the ancient Middle East, there are no female genealogies. Succession was through the male line only.
Also note another "works-based" reference to those who are Jesus' brothers and sisters.
Say what you want ,Dear Brother,but 1 Cor 19-20 and 1 Tim 12 say nothing of guarantied Salvation by faith alone. Take a look at what Blessed Saint John Chrysostom says,since you think I inserted my own personal interpretations.
I read it, but frankly I don't see how it relates to this conversation or to what I wrote. In addition, there was no claim here that these verses proved sola fide. My claim was that Paul KNEW he was saved and that other believers could too. In that light, and from these verses, what do you say "Do you not know..." and "I know" mean, since they apparently do not relate to knowledge for some folks around here. :)
STF, the POINT is not WHETHER one can "love and sacrifice and taking up a cross", the point is whether one can "love and sacrifice and taking up a cross" ON ONE'S OWN. Of course we seek to do those things, but we must know that we NEED God to do them. The devil wants you to think you can do it yourself, without "interference" from God, using just your autonomous free will and inner goodness. That's what the Reformed say you can't possibly measure up to. The Reformed are trying to protect you, STF. :)
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46
OK, this is helpful to understand the nature of the grace you are talking about. It is a helper to the doer, and guarantor of nothing. So according to this part of the Catechism, there is no such thing as saving grace that actually NECESSARILY leads to salvation itself, it only helps the person to go forward and possibly achieve salvation through his own free will decisions.
2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, “since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:”50
But of course this doesn't interfere with man's sovereign will. So according to this God is finished when He leaves us on our own to decide for ourselves what to do next in our quest for salvation. This is what I was looking for, so thanks. :) When we even talk about grace itself we have to be aware that we are talking about completely different concepts.
FK: ***If we are talking about saving grace, I would describe it as that grace which guarantees entry into Heaven.***
Since it is possible to reject God, I would say that it is guarantees us to be able to walk the Way.
That matches the Catechism. So there really is no such thing as "saving grace". The best that God offers is "enabling grace".
FK: ***We say over and over again that there are always consequences for sin and man is responsible for his own sin, yet we still get this. ...... ***
You say that there are consequences, yet you don’t really list any.
This is what I'm talking about:
Heb 12:4-11 : 4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline ,and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, 6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves,and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." 7 Endure hardship as discipline ; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
8 If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline ), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! 10 Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
There is consequence for sins after salvation. These consequences can take any form.
Jesus spent most of the Gospels instructing us how to act; to tell us that if we do not obey him that we will lose our salvation, and yet he tells us in 1 Thess, in 2 Peter and in John 8:31-32 that He wills us all to be saved, yet He tells the Jews that it is possible to lose their salvation.
Jesus spent most of the Gospels telling us if we do not obey him that we will lose our salvation??? :) Wow! I guess that makes Jesus a colossal LIAR in the rest of the Gospels! :) He says plenty of times things like "those who are saved will do this....", but I have no idea where He even remotely says MANY times, as you allege, anything like that God will break His promise to true believers, presumably for failure to perform. (God MUST break His promises to follow Latin theology.)
All are called. The consequences of sin are death. What are the consequences of the Reformed?
The consequences of the Reformed are a Godly understanding and teaching of God's Holy word, and a defense of God's sovereignty and Holiness. :) In Reformed theology, the consequence of sin is death, just like the verse says, UNLESS, all sin has been paid for by a suitable sacrifice. Our Lord Jesus mercifully and willingly served as that sacrifice. It saddens me that some faiths try to take that away from Him.
For example, imagine that you are soon passed the age of majority (say 18) and decide to become a Catholic. You take the classes and then are baptized. Now as I understand it, at that moment Jesus has paid for all of your sins up to 18, plus whatever counts for original sin. Is that right? Now, for the rest of your life you are on your own in paying for sins, so if you live to be 90 you and your priests will have taken care of all of those sins during that time. IOW, you don't even have Jesus paying for half of your sins. You took care of most of them yourself through penance or being absolved by your priests. To me that totally cheapens Christ on the cross and what He did for us.
FK: ***Again, ONLY YOUR SIDE says anyone believes that nothing we do matters. I have given detailed responses more than once explaining why we do not think that. Apparently they are not getting through.***
If you wouldn’t mind, would you please post them again? They most certainly have not gotten through to me.
I have said that what we do matters because God ordains action within time, and what God ordains matters. So, if God ordained that I witness to the mailman tomorrow, then it matters whether that happens or not. Of course it will happen.
Now, most of the time when this subject comes up I am given the impression that the only things that people do that "matter" to Apostolics are those things that further along salvation, what I call earning more points. But under Reformed theology, even those things matter, first because they were ordained, and second because perseverance IS a component of salvation.
So if those things didn't happen, then salvation would be lost. However, that only exists theoretically because God promises that He will not allow that to happen. If Christ allows a sheep to fail to persevere, then He has let one slip through His hands. The Bible says that Christ pledges that won't happen. I believe Him. Acts of perseverance matter because God ordained and promised that they would happen, not because they serve to improve on Christ's finished work.
This is new. :) Do I understand correctly that you believe that God actually does have a "plan", which He takes infallible steps to implement, that cannot be thwarted by man's free will? From your statement it sounds like you do think He has a plan, but it is just on a much smaller scale than we think God's plan is. But, I don't want to put words into your mouth so I would just ask if you would care to elaborate a little bit.
When God changes the program, the result is free will?
If I'm following you, then "Yes" the result is free will since that person was not free to come to God before the "change in the program", assuming that means regeneration. The Truth (God) sets us free, and only at that time can we believe.
Sadly, the Reformed theology inevitably leads to that end, SFA. It makes evil a creature of God, and therefore God as its source.
Well, I agree on both accounts. Except that you forgot (?) to reply in context of my post, which was in reference to the fact that the Reformed theology makes evil a creature of God.
Catholics are on the fringe of Christianity
Keep telling yourself that; you may even believe it. But, if "Christianity" is what the Reformed teach then I would gladly agree. In Catholicism/Orthodoxy God is never associated with evil, but in the Reformed theology He is the source of it.
Once you have gone this far the next step is to say the same about the devil-that the devil is evil because God designed him that way?
Well, if we say that satan is a fallen angel, then we can't say that God designed him that way, but we CAN say that God designed him to BECOME that way. That is, when God constructed the equivalent of satan's "inner parts" He did so with the full knowledge, and indeed ordination, that satan would turn into what he turned into.
This would make God the cause of the devil because the devil would not exist and be evil without God being the cause. God is the first cause of everything that comes into being and if God designed evil He would have evil in His essence.
Well, do you deny that God created satan knowing what was going to happen? I mean, God wasn't surprised was He? He wasn't compelled to create satan or something was He? Maybe I don't see where you're going with this.
Are you sure you want to preach this to others?
Yes, in fact I've preached things just like this on this very fine forum before! :)
Perhaps Aquinas can help you see your error? That Evil is not a Nature or Essence......
I'm afraid that I don't see how any of this passage applies to anything I have said. I haven't brought in the concept of "essence" into my references to man being born in sin or being evil. Adam was created without sin, but with the potential to commit it.
8. All being, howsoever it be, is from God .But God is perfect goodness Since then evil cannot be the effect of goodness, it is impossible for any being, as being, to be evil.**
When we consider satan under this statement I think it flies pretty far off into left field. Here Aquinas has to blame God for creating potentiality. I don't know if he really means to do that, but it is ridiculous regardless.
“in the Reformed theology He is the source of it (evil).”
Keep telling yourself that and you may even believe it. But Reformed theology submits to the Scripture and the Scripture says God permits evil and can use it for His purposes. Perfect God cannot be “the source” of evil. But He can allow His creation to sin.
When you change the common meaning of a word, it would be wise to define it for the sake of better communication even though it is done without any recognizable authority to do so, regardless how "justified" it may seem to you.
Kosta, you still harp on Pecca Fortier even after I posted an extremely lengthy dissertation on it that I don't remember you even challenging.
Guilty as charged, FK. I can't answer all lengthy diatribes from a dozen or so concurrent posters. If I found something new or something that hasn't been rehashed in the past, or if I had changed my mind vis-a-vis Luther's pecca fortiter, I would have replied. My silence is usually an indication that something is "same old, same old."
I surmised that was because you wanted to keep bringing it up.
No, it's because I didn't find anything new in it. I will bring it up when the context calls for it, not to annoy you.
For that reason I am not going to use the word "command". That is, I do not want you to quote me the way you quote Luther
That depends on the context of what you write and not on one word.
It was God's choice by ordination, and Adam's choice by execution.
Huh? It is my choice by "ordination" and the computer's "choice" by execution? I push the buttons and the computer does the what I want it to do. The computer has no choice, executive or otherwise. The computer does what I tell it to do.
If God wills us to do things then we do it, like a computer. No choice of execution here.
Adam and Eve had no chance against the serpent and God let it happen
No, according to the Reformed theology, God specifically made the serpent, and placed him in the garden so as to deceive Eve and make Adam fall for it. God didn't just "let it happen." He orchestrated the whole thing—out of "love" no doubt.
If I put my "power" over you (i.e. by hypnosis), so that you cannot resist, and make you commit a crime while in that state, claiming that I am "guilty" only of "allowing it to happen" would not stand.
Of course Adam wanted to sin
This means you are suggesting that Adam's created nature (before the Fall) was sinful? That's a new one! And God called all His worked "good?" The innovations just keep piling up along with freelance definitions of words.
Now, if you want to blame God for all sin because He created Adam with the capacity for sin, then you can make a case. But that's where you have to go. For your side, either man is sovereign and autonomous above God's will, OR, God authors all sin. We disagree.
Reformed theology leads exactly to that end: if God didn't want evil in the world, then evil would not be in the world. The only reason evil exists in the world is because God made it.
The Christian view is that gave man freedom to choose, and free choice can lead to more than one choice. Since freedom is something God willed, we cannot take that freedom away. You are free to make correct choices until the day you die; and you are also free not to make them. Even when you are trapped and have no way out, you can still choose God and give yourself to Him.
God creates all individuals, and the original sin they are born with is directly a result of Adam's free will choice to sin
So, God creates all men with defective will because of Adam? Or is it that Adam's nature changed after the Fall and fallen humans have fallen offspring by nature? Thus, like a drug-addicted baby, whose addiction is not his, but his mother's fault, man's addiction to sin is a consequence of Adam's sin and not his sin.
A drug addict may wish to rid himself of the curse, but his will is too weak and needs a physician to cure him. But in order to cure him, he must be willing to cooperate with the physician and follow his advice. Being sick is not a sin in itself. It's how you got sick that could be.
I just report what the Bible describes
According to your own definitions.
Under the Apostolic view, God appears to let His children run amok, doing whatever they want at all times
Nonsense, FK. The Church doesn't teach that, and you know that. :)
Any faith that holds to the scriptures as closely as the Reformed faith does MUST seem like it's on the fringes of Christianity from the extra-scriptural and contra-scriptural perspective of Apostolic Tradition and thought
Any religion, sect or cult that teaches that God created evil is not Christianity, never was, and never will be.
The creation can sin only if it is free to make choices. God gave made reason and freedom to choose. How man uses it—to his benefit or to his detrement—is not God's doing but ours.
God gave made=God gave man
***So Mark, then you associate yourself with Kosta’s analysis that has the Bible contradicting itself all over the place? Remember, Kosta was simply responding to Irish’s open-ended question “what do you all think of this?”. ***
There are some things that appear to contradict each other, at least on the surface. That is why we understand that the Bible is not completely self-evident and needs to be interpreted by the same authority that put it together in the first place.
All men are physically born dead in sin and are unable to choose good. All the “good” dead men do is evil. Here’s a link to an examination of the choice of chains a man has - ONCE he has been born again in Christ. Look for “Choose your chains” in the left hand column of this page: http://menofhonorministry.org/Discipleship.htm
***My claim was that Paul KNEW he was saved and that other believers could too.***
Then why does Paul say that it is possible to lose one’s salvation? Rom 11:
21
For if God did not spare the natural branches, (perhaps) he will not spare you either.
22
See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
23
And they also, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24
For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated one, how much more will they who belong to it by nature be grafted back into their own olive tree.
***So according to this part of the Catechism, there is no such thing as saving grace that actually NECESSARILY leads to salvation itself, it only helps the person to go forward and possibly achieve salvation through his own free will decisions.***
If you are not given God’s Grace, then you cannot be saved. If you are given God’s Grace, accept it, then you CAN be saved, sure.
***There is consequence for sins after salvation. These consequences can take any form.***
Such as? You are not very clear in differentiating hardships endured on Earth versus some sort of nebulous something or other in Heaven. What are the punishments that you think will happen in Heaven?
***But of course this doesn’t interfere with man’s sovereign will. So according to this God is finished when He leaves us on our own to decide for ourselves what to do next in our quest for salvation. This is what I was looking for, so thanks. :)***
Not quite. God doesn’t leave men alone - He nudges and pushes and interferes, but in the end, it is up to man to accept or deny God.
***That matches the Catechism. So there really is no such thing as “saving grace”. The best that God offers is “enabling grace”.***
Well, if you don’t have it, then you cannot be saved. The thief on the cross didn’t have it until the very end; it was of his own volition that he asked to receive it. The other thief didn’t. An illustration, anyway.
***Jesus spent most of the Gospels telling us if we do not obey him that we will lose our salvation??? :) Wow! I guess that makes Jesus a colossal LIAR in the rest of the Gospels! :) He says plenty of times things like “those who are saved will do this....”, but I have no idea where He even remotely says MANY times, as you allege, anything like that God will break His promise to true believers, presumably for failure to perform. ***
Let’s see what He said:
22
Nor does the Father judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to his Son,
23
so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
24
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
25
Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26
For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.
27
And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28
Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29
and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.
Those who believe in God and have done good will be resurrected and those who have done evil (regardless of belief) will be condemned. Liar?
2 Cor 5:
10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.
Matt 25:
31
14 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32
and all the nations 15 will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33
He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34
Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’
37
Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39
When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’
40
And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41
17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43
a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
44
18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
45
He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
46
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Jesus does not lie. The Reformed appear to have left the mathematical operator “and” out of their vocabulary. You must fulfill all of God’s requirements, and not just the ones that you wish to acknowledge.
***The consequences of the Reformed are a Godly understanding and teaching of God’s Holy word, and a defense of God’s sovereignty and Holiness. :) In Reformed theology, the consequence of sin is death, just like the verse says, UNLESS, all sin has been paid for by a suitable sacrifice. Our Lord Jesus mercifully and willingly served as that sacrifice. It saddens me that some faiths try to take that away from Him.***
Jesus has paid that price and ransomed us all. He has offered to us a mighty inheritance; but not all will accept it.
***For example, imagine that you are soon passed the age of majority (say 18) and decide to become a Catholic. You take the classes and then are baptized. Now as I understand it, at that moment Jesus has paid for all of your sins up to 18, plus whatever counts for original sin. Is that right? Now, for the rest of your life you are on your own in paying for sins, so if you live to be 90 you and your priests will have taken care of all of those sins during that time. IOW, you don’t even have Jesus paying for half of your sins.***
Nice flights of fancy; that is not how it works.
We understand that there is no free ride so therefore life is a Way, a Path that we must tread. We must repent for our sins - all of them. But because we are inside Time, we cannot be absolved of sins ahead of time - that’s a very bad concept - because it would absolve the sinner not only of repentence for those very acts that will occur in the future, but also lead to the attitude of Martin Luther that one may sin boldy with no consequence to your soul.
***If Christ allows a sheep to fail to persevere, then He has let one slip through His hands. The Bible says that Christ pledges that won’t happen.***
Frogmarching again? Jesus and the Apostles say that we can fail and slip away. That is a sobering thought.
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