Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
***My tag line is a quote from St. Augustine
Touché!***
Some days, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
***That’s why I intend to vote for pure conservatives with any chance I get. ***
The trouble is that those chances appear to be disappearing rapidly. Where did the conservatives go?
I can't speak for the Latin clergy (but I seriously doubt that they teach they have "supernatural powers"), but I would want you show me what "supernatural powers" the Orthodox clergy claim (and I know I have shown you to be wrong on this in the past).
You'll have to show me where the Church teaches that God gave man freedom to control God. The Church teaches that God gave man (limited) freedom to use (in His likeness) in exercising dominion over earth (in His image), not to "thwart" God. Our planet is way too small and insignificant, smaller than a dust particle, to have any effect on our Galaxy, let alone the Universe, or God, who is beyond everything.
Elder Cleopa, when asked what he thought of the feat of Yuriy Gagarin, the first man in space, said to the effect it was like a little bee flying out of his hive and going around it three times before returning. The rest of the world remained unshaken.
Our freedom affects us and whether we walk in God's light, or choose to walk in our fallen darkness. Christ's sacrifice on the Cross restored that freedom, which was lost with Adam's transgression.
The Reformed have concocted this myth that God is there to control everything on this little speck of dust. What He gave us was a gift and the recipients are free to do what they please with it, to their benefit or demise. Otherwise it's not a gift.
Really? And what makes you think you change for the "better" is really something God wants you to do and is not something you want to do to be on the "safe" side? If you are assured of your salvation, then sin boldly as Luther urges, and show confidence that nothing you do will affect it.
And who is the judge of whether you are a "better" person now and you are not just hiding behind your good deeds? Why, it is you, of course, who is the judge. We do the same thing, but we keep repenting because we never asusme that we are not "good enough" for God.
And if God is the micromanager in charge, then the turn for the "worse" must be God's will as well and by and of itself must be good because its from God, right? Isn't it the Reformed theology's premise that sin is something God uses to fulfill His plan? Then how can sin be bad?
Why, with this mindset, the reformed ought to be thanking and praising God when someone gets raped, killed or terminally ill! It's all good. But they sure don't act like they believe it's good!
No, because faith is not subject to proof or disproof. I have no problem with anyone's faith. I have a problem with those who state their faith as if it were a provable fact. When they say "the Bible is the word of God" instead of "I believe the Bible is the word of God." Or when they tell me "Indwelling spirit moves me" versus "I believe the indwelling spirit moves me."
Then, if the faith has no proof, as you begin to realize, then why argue faith? What do you have to offer as a convincing "proof" that what you believe is (absolutely) true? Your faith, which is—as you now admit—unprovable?
Bible thumpers obviously believe that their faith can be proven, which is why they forcfeed the Bible down everyone's throat, while admitting that God gives us faith! Imagine that! If faith is all we need, and it comes only from God, then why forceed the Bible on anyone as if that will make them believe? Obviously, because Protestant bibliolators think that the Bible can "prove" the faith. Otherwise, why would they quote verses as "proof?"
But you do realize that this business of "seeing without believing" is something Christianity had to introduce once the miracles stopped being shown on the regular basis. That's why this passage appears in John, which was written at the end of the century. It had to prepare the world to accept faith without miracles and without signs. But, think about it: if the whole world did not get converted when the miracles were occurring on a regular basis, why would it accept something on blind faith?
But, let me ask you something: what would it take for you to believe (and willing to die for that belief) that a homeless man in a New York subway, begging, is Christ almighty?
we never assume that we are not "good enough" for God should read "we never assume that we are "good enough" for God"
***I can’t speak for the Latin clergy (but I seriously doubt that they teach they have “supernatural powers”), but I would want you show me what “supernatural powers” the Orthodox clergy claim (and I know I have shown you to be wrong on this in the past).***
Well, when every Reformed is his own magician, why bother with clergy at all?
Bullseye!
We love the Gaithers. Bought another one for hubby for Christmas called “Good News.” David Phelps has an awesome voice. Thank you. I put them in my favorites. Mxxx
Amen, Irish. I fear the Reformed has the truth and the RCC will find many of its members wondering how they got to hell. I really fear that for them.
I’m ‘reformed’ and going to heaven. I do hope I see you there, Mark, but if you insist on worshipping your church instead of Jesus and insisting that the ‘reformed’ are evil and going to hell’, I may not see you at the pearly gates. I would be very sad if that were the case.
Jesus gave us a church, not the catholic church, and the body of Christ IS the church that God gave us. But keep ignoring the truth.
AMEN, Irish, AMEN.
Your church didn’t GIVE us the Bible. God did. He used your church to preserve it, PERHAPS, but the Bible doesn’t belong to your church. It belongs to the Body of Christ.
Good answer, FK. Thanks.
I very strongly suspect that few of those who demand physical "proof" will receive it.
Or to put it another way, not everyone will be treated like doubting Thomas. (John 20:24-29)
As Christ said:
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. - Matthew 12:28-32
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. – I John 4:9
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. – John 17:20-23
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. – John 12:47-48
To God be the glory, not man, never man.
I think you’re quite bright enough—especially with God’s help—to know when to apply my figure of speach.
You are most welcome.
Here’s some more. There’s 500+ links on YouTube.
WHEN WE ALL GET TOGETHER WITH THE LORD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E9TJhjN6Pg
WHERE COULD I GO BUT TO THE LORD -GAITHER BAND N FRIENDS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqRO7DbK86g
WHERE NO ONE STANDS ALONE —GAITHER VOCAL BAND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHObV_XCF4I
WHY ME, LORD GAITHER VOCAL BAND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3iy7NcZCEo&feature=related
WORTHY IS THE LAMB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DJS5XZcpS0&feature=related
YES I KNOW –GAITHER BAND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDnV_Nix1Qo
by THE ISAACS:
IT IS WELL WITH MY SOUL THE ISAACS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFXAY7QRtzY
AND IT IS WELL (VIOLIN)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1-ohPHyWaE
BLESSED ASSURANCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiPmv8pkPOA
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