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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; ...
So, I have just come to think that there exists no proof that you as an individual would accept

No, because faith is not subject to proof or disproof. I have no problem with anyone's faith. I have a problem with those who state their faith as if it were a provable fact. When they say "the Bible is the word of God" instead of "I believe the Bible is the word of God." Or when they tell me "Indwelling spirit moves me" versus "I believe the indwelling spirit moves me."

Then, if the faith has no proof, as you begin to realize, then why argue faith? What do you have to offer as a convincing "proof" that what you believe is (absolutely) true? Your faith, which is—as you now admit—unprovable?

Bible thumpers obviously believe that their faith can be proven, which is why they forcfeed the Bible down everyone's throat, while admitting that God gives us faith! Imagine that! If faith is all we need, and it comes only from God, then why forceed the Bible on anyone as if that will make them believe? Obviously, because Protestant bibliolators think that the Bible can "prove" the faith. Otherwise, why would they quote verses as "proof?"

2,386 posted on 02/20/2008 7:11:03 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
"I have a problem with those who state their faith as if it were a provable fact.....When they say "the Bible is the word of God" instead of "I believe the Bible is the word of God."

To be consistant, why doesn't your tag line say I believe that "Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity"?

2,402 posted on 02/20/2008 9:52:08 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
***No, because faith is not subject to proof or disproof.***

That’s baloney. Faith isn’t a Kierkegardian “leap of faith”. Faith is the hope in promises through the evidence of unseen things. God promised a Messiah and it was fulfilled. Evidence. You may not believe the evidence but that does not make it unprovable or incoherent.

In the end the Catholic faiths deny revelation, especially the Greeks with their faith in their pagan philosophers negative theology, and with this denial of revelation down goes the doctrine of God and especially the person and work of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit reduced to merely the power of God, rejecting his personhood, and with the rejection of revelation, then all revelatory religions are gnostic. Not having any transcendence to back their religious system they install a system of precedence that tries to mimic transcendence. When over time this system of precedence naturally fails the current man/god in power is said to possess the revelatory power to override past precedence. We see this with Mormons, Romanists, and Greeks.

One other interesting note to go along with the above and that is that heresy always tags along with those religions that believe revelation is still continuing on today.

2,406 posted on 02/20/2008 10:12:05 AM PST by the_conscience ('The human mind is a perpetual forge of idols'.)
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To: kosta50; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Quix; the_conscience; ...
FK: "So, I have just come to think that there exists no proof that you as an individual would accept."

No, because faith is not subject to proof or disproof. I have no problem with anyone's faith. I have a problem with those who state their faith as if it were a provable fact. When they say "the Bible is the word of God" instead of "I believe the Bible is the word of God." Or when they tell me "Indwelling spirit moves me" versus "I believe the indwelling spirit moves me."

Well, for those of us who believe the Great Commission applies to us, we have to do a little better than that. :) Since you all don't believe in evangelism by the laity, it doesn't occur to you that your faith should be something you can SHOW to another person as being something they can relate to. If someone wandered in off the street into your Church and asked why he should accept your faith, I can only guess at the answer. :) Suffice it to say that I suspect it would be singularly weak.

But, that's just the way your Church is set up. Sharing God's Good News is not your problem, it is for others to do. One big difference is that with your position you, or even your priests, cannot show another person anything that is REAL to him, whereas to the Reformed (and other Protestant) evangelicals, that is what we seek to do.

Bible thumpers obviously believe that their faith can be proven, which is why they force feed the Bible down everyone's throat, while admitting that God gives us faith!

In personal ministry, no Bible-believing Christian I know or have heard of force feeds the Bible on anyone. The Bible teaches not to do that:

1 Peter 3:15 : But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, ...

Therefore, whoever you're talking about is not us. Also, I assume that this verse does not apply to you, however, it does apply to us.

2,988 posted on 02/25/2008 12:02:27 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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