Posted on 11/08/2007 5:23:05 PM PST by Colofornian
The LDS Church has changed a single word in its introduction to the Book of Mormon, a change observers say has serious implications for commonly held LDS beliefs about the ancestry of American Indians.
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe founder Joseph Smith unearthed a set of gold plates from a hill in upperstate New York in 1827 and translated the ancient text into English. The account, known as The Book of Mormon, tells the story of two Israelite civilizations living in the New World. One derived from a single family who fled from Jerusalem in 600 B.C. and eventually splintered into two groups, known as the Nephites and Lamanites.
The book's current introduction, added by the late LDS apostle, Bruce R. McConkie in 1981, includes this statement: "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."
The new version, seen first in Doubleday's revised edition, reads, "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians."
LDS leaders instructed Doubleday to make the change, said senior editor Andrew Corbin, so it "would be in accordance with future editions the church is printing."
The change "takes into account details of Book of Mormon demography which are not known," LDS spokesman Mark Tuttle said Wednesday.
It also steps into the middle of a raging debate about the book's historical claims.
Many Mormons, including several church presidents, have taught that the Americas were largely inhabited by Book of Mormon peoples. In 1971, Church President Spencer W. Kimball said that Lehi, the family patriarch, was "the ancestor of all of the Indian and Mestizo tribes in North and South and Central America and in the islands of the sea."
After testing the DNA of more than 12,000 Indians, though, most researchers have concluded that the continent's early inhabitants came from Asia across the Bering Strait.
With this change, the LDS Church is "conceding that mainstream scientific theories about the colonization of the Americas have significant elements of truth in them," said Simon Southerton, a former Mormon and author of Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA and the Mormon Church.
"DNA has revealed very clearly how closely related American Indians are to their Siberian ancestors, " Southerton said in an e-mail from his home in Canberra, Australia. "The Lamanites are invisible, not principal ancestors."
LDS scholars, however, dispute the notion that DNA evidence eliminates the possibility of Lamanites. They call it "oversimplification" of the research.
On the church's official Web site, lds.org, it says, "Nothing in the Book of Mormon precludes migration into the Americas by peoples of Asiatic origin. The scientific issues relating to DNA, however, are numerous and complex."
Mormon researcher John M. Butler and DNA expert further argues that "careful examination and demographic analysis of the Book of Mormon record in terms of population growth and the number of people described implies that other groups were likely present in the promised land when Lehi's family arrived, and these groups may have genetically mixed with the Nephites, Lamanites, and other groups. Events related in the Book of Mormon likely took place in a limited region, leaving plenty of room for other Native American peoples to have existed."
In recent years, many LDS scholars have come to share Butler's belief in what is known as the "limited geography" theory. By this view, the Nephites and Lamanites restricted their activities to portions of Central America, which would explain their absence from the general American Indian genetics.
Kevin Barney, a Mormon lawyer and independent researcher in Chicago, welcomes the introduction's word change.
"I have always felt free to disavow the language of the [Book of Mormon's] introduction, footnotes and dictionary, which are not part of the canonical scripture," said Barney, on the board of FAIR, a Mormon apologist group. "These things can change as the scholarship progresses and our understanding enlarges. This suggests to me that someone on the church's scripture committee is paying attention to the discussion."
Especially if you read the whole thing as opposed to whatever your preacher selects as a verse of the week.
"... a quadrapelegic can make it to heaven, and has no ability to do works which is why it's an individual 'all you can do' thing." Having or not having arms and legs isn't relevant to the Works of The Spirit within the human spirit transforming the human soul by the renewing of the mind of the soul. Amazing how spiritual blindness will expose itself occasionally don'tchaknow! The spin now should be interesting ...
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,Your Assertion here is that all things were not held in common, so I am asking you what does acts 2:44 mean to those with a non-cult mind? Acts 2:44,45
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.Here are my two questions: 1) I understand that you do not believe my interpretation, but what does it mean to a non Mormon that the believers held all things in Common?
Seems I've heard that somewhere before. Hmmmm, now where could that be, I wonder.
There was no command from Peter or James or any other to 'sell all and have it held in common' as clearly shown by Peter's instruction to Ananias. But the poster cannot get traction on the clear truth of the scripture passage so he mischaracterizes what someone wrote in order to try and manufacture a controvery there.
“So they can do it to others and their family has no say in the matter? That takes..... well... guts, shall we say?”
You are being fed a distorted and hostile view of us by some posters here.
It is important to realize that a proxy baptism doesn’t force anything on the person it is done for. It is of no effect at all unless that deceased person (now in the spirit world) accepts what was done on their behalf. If they accept, then it becomes as if they were baptized, if they choose to reject it, it is as if nothing was done. The choice is theirs to make, not their family’s.
Either way we don’t really know so the church doesn’t count them as members. All that is done is a simple baptism, almost identical to how we baptize a living person, except in a baptism for the dead the wording is changed a little to reflect that a living person is baptized in baptized in behalf of someone who is dead.
Why should someone’s family have a veto over what choices they can make regarding religion? Why should someone be offended by someone else doing a proxy baptism if they think the practice has no validity and will change nothing? If someone things it is a valid practice, they should be glad it was done, if they think it is invalid, they should at least accept it as gesture of love towards that deceased person.
“What about those poor souls who know one knows existed because birth records were lost or never kept?”
We are encouraged research our own family tree and have proxy baptisms done for our ancestors so that is the source for the vast majority of proxy baptisms we currently do. Yes there are many people whose lives have no existing record, but this work will continue on to the end of the millennial reign of Christ. Resurrected persons will be able to provide missing information, and if necessary revelation from God is also there to ensure that all receive a fair chance.
“Whats the point of even becoming Mormon if one can have it done by proxy?”
It isn’t a second chance. If you get a fair chance here and reject it, then you have made your choice and nothing done after your life will change anything. You will be the same person in the spirit world as you are here. Same attitudes, same likes and dislikes. If someone can’t bring themselves to repent of their sins and accept the gospel here when given the chance, they aren’t going to react any differently to it in the spirit world.
If someone else accepts it is true, what good reason would there be for not becoming a Mormon? Also, accepting the fullness of the gospel and living it brings great blessings and joy into a person’s life.
I don't have to guess. 2 Nephi 25:23 is clear enough. Grace kicks in ONCE you or any Mormon has done "all you can do." (Or do you still have a problem comprehending what that word "after" means?)
If I say: "I'll pick you up & give you a free ride AFTER you get the house totally clean," and the house isn't totally clean, then I guess that "free ride" ain't acomin', now is it?
I gave the proper emphasis, you need both, and Grace you can't do without, works...
My primary point here was the order of the two: You put grace first (which is a fine Biblical perspective, but doesn't reflect 2 Nephi 25:23 at all). 2 Nephi 25:23 puts "All you can do" first; grace doesn't kick in til this is accomplished. So (a) is "all you can do"; and (b) is grace. But the way 2 Nephi 25:23 frames, it, (b)--grace--doesn't show up til (a) is fully accomplished.
(b) then becomes a mere footnote because it's a "catch-22" Let us hear from your lips: Is there going to be a point in your life where you'll be able to say: "I, DelphiUser, have done ALL I can do spiritually, physically, emotionally, intellectually, good neighborly, good Samaritanly, with no sins of omission?"
Now think of the most spiritual, moral Mormon whose ever lived. Did Smith do all he could do? I mean, he could have married 100 women and didn't. He could have lived longer had he not ordered the vandalism of a printing press. He didn't do "all he could do" on behalf of the customers of Kirtland Bank. I could go on and on.
You don't earn grace, that's the point of it being grace...
Agreed.
Mormons believe in Grace, we also believe in works which evidently you never understood were you actually paying attention in church all those years? If so, I don't know how you "missed" so many of the central teachings of the church...REally, please explain the existence of James 2: 14-36 in the Bible then.
You & I aren't really arguing works other than what the true weight of what those works are. We both agree good works are a true mark of true Christians. Jesus went about doing good; His true followers will as well. But there's also non-Jesus followers who do good works...and it's not simply weighing good works vs. selfish works as if Heavenly Father grades us on a curve like some school teacher.
It's pass-fail. We steal. Even a once-convicted thief can get jail time. We hate. Even a once-convicted murderer can be put to death. "For the wages (what we earn) of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23). Good works are only a by-product of our faith; not an ingredient that creates our faith or changes God's mind about who we are.
You somehow think that it's works + grace = salvation, as if the greatest gift of all--salvation--can be paid for by works.
Imagine a son @ Christmas time. You say to him, "Hey, I got a great deal on that gift. Normally $20,000. I'm going to give you that gift in exchange for 40 hours of labor that's going to be worth about $400 to me. You are be-graced with this $10,000 gift after ALL you can do for me in a week's labor."
Now imagine the response of your son: "Hey, I thought this was a gift." And you say, "It is. But you know, we're Mormons. Faith without works is dead, you know...or are you not keeping up with your memorization of James 2?" "But dad," he says. "You told me that gifts are unearned." And you respond, "Well, grace IS unearned. But come on, are you not keeping up with 2 Nephi 25:23, either? This Unearned gift saved your Christmas day, young fella, but ONLY after all you can do for a week. And I'm letting you off easy. 2 Nephi 25:23 puts no timetable into this matter."
If fathers ran Christmases the way Smith says in 2 Nephi 25:23 that Heavenly Father runs salvation, nobody would get anything until they've done ALL they can do. That concept is "nasty" on two fronts:
(1) Whereas in the Bible, it's God's grace that forgives us, empowers us and enables us to do good works; in the Book of Mormon it's only an after-burner after reaching perfection (after doing ALL you can do). (2) "ALL" you can do: The New Testament makes it very clear that the Law (doing all you can do) doesn't bring life. In fact, it kills. (Read Galatians again). It's not that the law itself is bad. But if you're a thief, and you steal time from God, that law convicts you. Guilty.
Please explain how James 2 is from God and 2 Ne 25 is of the devil. This should be fun to watch.
Allow me to explain it this way: You go to work for a new boss. You've heard that of any employer in the world, this guy gives the best Christmas bonus EVER. I mean, this bonus is so good, it's out of this world. The hours aren't the best (long). The work is very difficult. The pay? (Ya gotta be kidding?) But wow. That bonus. It's something else.
Well, every year, ya hear about THE BONUS. But every Christmas, you don't see any co-worker who actually gets it. Oh, the promise still exists. He's gonna give it alright. You finally decide to read the promise firsthand, instead of relying upon hearsay. It reads: "You will receive a free Christmas bonus better than anything this world can offer you..." You react, "Oh...boy!!!" Then you continue reading: "...AFTER all you can do as an employee." Now you start to sweat. You think about the times you've come in late. You think about the extra overtime hours you didn't always put in. You think about the goofing off here & there. Not only that...in fact even worse...is you hear that HIS standards as boss are quite a bit higher than your immediate supervisor's standard and your own standard. In fact, when you start to even just scan the 66-book Employees Manual, you realize, "Oops. I'm cooked. I don't even measure up to my supervisor's standards and my own personal standards, let alone THE BOSS' And, now that I've read the fine print of what it means to actually 'DO ALL I can do,' there ain't nobody coming away with that Christmas bonus save the Owner's Son."
Also, explain why such a stealth scripture is so emphasized by the church that is is used by missionaries everywhere as an explanation that we can't just have faith only (along with James 2), Next you will say we emphasize it so no one will notice that we are slipping it in "undetected."
You've already conceded that the BoM lifts parts of Isaiah & plants them in the BoM wholesale. The BoM does the same things in lifting direct King James English phrases & verses from the Gospels (as if the South American/Central American ancient Mormons scratched out 17th century thees & thous on gold plates). So those verses contain content truth. A fresh reader coming along reads truth. In one chapter of the BoM, they'll read something from the book of Isaiah, and then the next chapter something from one of the gospels. Sandwiched in between can be a passage like 2 Nephi 25:23. That is what I mean by "slipping" something in.
II Peter 2:7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men
Help me here. I'm drawing a blank on the record righteous deeds performed by Lot in Genesis
Well, the most fellowship-oriented thing Lot did was to agree to drop out of close fellowship w/his uncle Abram. Lot's herdsmen & Abram's were quarreling in Gen. 13. So, certainly he was flexible/teachable to accepting Abram's advice that their collective herdsmen no longer quarrel.
But other than that, you ask an appropriate question. And it's one that LDS should take note of. 2 Peter 2:7-8 make it quite clear that Lot's righteousness was inward: God noted that when Lot lived first near Sodom & then in Sodom, he was oppressed & distressed & tormented by the unrighteous deeds he saw around him.
Lot's righteousness wasn't in a laundry list of outward righteous deeds that would build up his own glory; rather, it was in inwardly reacting to unrighteousness--the same kind of righteous abhorrence that God has over man's unrighteous deeds.
What's more, if the LDS church is supposedly a "true restoration" of the early church, why was there no record of baptism for the dead being performed in South/Central America in Book of Mormon times? Why no mention of this practice in that book if it's the FULNESS of the everlasting gospel? Why no mention of any "second chances" in the BoM?
When Lot believed God that Sodom was about to be destroyed and he took his family out, he ‘believed God and it was counted for him righteousness’ in the same fashion God applied His righteousness to Abraham, retroactively from the event of the cross to redeem the ‘chit’ He issued to Abraham, and Lot, and David, and ... well, you get the picture, but sadly the Mormons don’t.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?James two lists some specific works, one by a harlot which were counted as good. now you might argue that everything is spiritual in nature, but that I can see is your only hope of supporting your assertion that it was "Works of the Spirit" I was talking about.
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.I would indeed be telling an untruth if I said there was no possibility that I am misinterpreting the Bible, but you would also be telling a untruth to say what I am saying has no support from the Bible. Thus we are looking at the same book and bringing away different interpretations, this is why there are so many "Christian" churches all using the Bible.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Daddy, I need to talk to you, the little girl said. Seeing her earnest expression, the father set his newspaper aside and looked into his daughters eyes.You keep telling me I can't afford a bike with the few coins I can earn, I keep telling you that I know that, but If I don't prove to Jesus how much I love him by trying, then my brother, my Savior my friend cannot save me, for I must show that I want what he has offered, for that is the deal he has offered us, to do what we can (earn our sixty one cents inadequate though it might be), and he promises that it'll be enough for he will make up the difference.
All my friends have bikes, the little girl explained. Can I get a bike? I could ride it to school and lock it with a lock. I could go to my friends house all by myself and you wouldnt even have to drive me. Her eyes sparkled with excitement at the thought.
Well, he said, that is an interesting idea. But having a bike is a big responsibility, you know. And bikes cost quite a lot of money.
The little girl smiled confidently. Im going to pay for it myself, she declared. Im going to save up all my money and not spend even one penny. If I save and save, dont you think Ill have enough for a bike someday.
Her father sat for a few moments without answering. He knew that his little girl had no idea what a bicycle would really cost. There was no way her small allowance would be enough, even if she did extra jobs around the house to add to it.
But she was so excited, so earnest so priceless that his heart melted. He took her into his arms and hugged her tightly. A goal is a good thing to have, he said. Why dont you try it, and lets see what happens.
A few days went by, and the father found his little girl sweeping the porch. The following week he noticed her working alongside her mother in the garden, pulling weeds and planting flowers. And once or twice, as the little girl went into her bedroom, he heard the clink of coins being dropped into a glass jar.
After a while, the little girl came to her father and said, Daddy, Ive been working and saving up all my money for a long time. Can we get my bike now? She shook the coins in the bottom of the jar.
The father looked at the little collection of coins, and then he looked into the pleading eyes of the little girl he loved so much. Lets go and see what we can find out, he suggested.
The bicycle shop had a little bell that made a tinkling noise when they walked into the store. They hadnt looked around very long when suddenly the little girl froze. There it was! The most beautiful bicycle she could ever have imagined! She ran to it, stroking its shiny chrome and running her fingers through the colorful streamers that flowed from its handle grips. Never could there be a more perfect bike than this one. She clapped her hands with the pure delight of it.
Then she reached for the price tag.
The next moment, the sunshine in the little girls eyes melted into tears. Oh, Daddy, she wept, Ill never have enough. Never. She threw herself into his arms.
Her father cradled her head on his shoulder and gently stroked her hair, letting her cry.
When the little girl finally settled down, her father wiped her tears away and said, How about this? How much money do you have?
Sixty-one cents, she answered in a forlorn voice.
Then Ill tell you what, he said. Lets try a different arrangement. You give me everything youve got the whole sixty-one cents and a hug and a kiss, and this bike is yours. Ill make up the difference.
Hope came back into the little girls eyes. Really, Daddy? she asked.
Really, honey.
Oh, Daddy! she said once again, but the words were happy ones now, and the little girl hurried to fill her part of the bargain with several hugs and kisses just to be sure.
The deal was completed, and the Most Perfect Bike Ever was purchased, and the father walked beside his little girl as she wheeled it proudly to the car. In his pockets jingled the sixty-one cents, and in his heart glowed his love for his daughter and the joy he felt in knowing how hard she had worked to reach her goal. When it came down to it, the sixty-one cents and the hugs and kisses were exactly enough.
But the story doesnt end there. . . .
The truth is, theres something we all want, and we want it more than any child ever wanted any bicycle. We want the kingdom of God. We want to go home to our Father in Heaven worthy and clean.
At some point in that spiritual voyage, we recognize the full price of admission into that kingdom, and we also realize we cannot pay it. Well never have enough - - never. The tremendous price of perfect performance is hopelessly beyond our means.
And so we despair.
Only then can we fully appreciate the One who comes to save. For Him, each soul is priceless. When we finally feel the pain of our own shortcomings, the Savior, Jesus Christ, steps in and lovingly says, Lets try a different arrangement. How much do you have? You give me exactly that much (the whole sixty-one cents) and do all you can do, and I will provide the rest for now. You give me all youve got, and a hug and a kiss (signifying the love that cements this covenant), and the kingdom is yours. Perfection will still be our ultimate goal, but until you can achieve it on your own, Ill let you use mine. What do you say?
To all who want to serve God and keep his commandments, who hunger and thirst after righteousness, we declare, this is the good news of the gospel. Christ is the answer. He is the bridge from here to there. He is our hope when we feel cut off and alone. He is our Savior
(Stephen E. Robinson, You Are Priceless - The Parable of the Bicycle, Shadow Mountain 2004).
2 And now I, Nephi, write more of the words of Isaiah, for my soul delighteth in his words. For I will liken his words unto my people, and I will send them forth unto all my children, for he verily saw my Redeemer, even as I have seen him.You may feel this is a confession you have "Wrung" out of me, and I don't want to ruin your moment of victory, but truly, a moment is all I can spare.
20 And now, my brethren, I have spoken plainly that ye cannot err. And as the Lord God liveth that brought Israel up out of the land of Egypt, and gave unto Moses power that he should heal the nations after they had been bitten by the poisonous serpents, if they would cast their eyes unto the serpent which he did raise up before them, and also gave him power that he should smite the rock and the water should come forth; yea, behold I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven save it be this Jesus Christ, of which I have spoken, whereby man can be saved.As with many scriptures posted by Anti Mormons, reading the scripture in context makes the interpretation they promote more capricious, not less.
21 Wherefore, for this cause hath the Lord God promised unto me that these things which I write shall be kept and preserved, and handed down unto my seed, from generation to generation, that the promise may be fulfilled unto Joseph, that his seed should never perish as long as the earth should stand.
22 Wherefore, these things shall go from generation to generation as long as the earth shall stand; and they shall go according to the will and pleasure of God; and the nations who shall possess them shall be judged of them according to the words which are written.
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
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