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To: Mad Dawg

The answer was (to paraphrase) was “we can pray to Jesus, but we also pray to saints.”

The problem you have is that you were not able to infer from my next statements that I don’t agree with that answer. there is no evidenceIf I have to spell it out for you more clearly that I don’t agree with their answer, by stating that I don’t believe in praying to Christians who have died and are no longer among the living on earth, then I will clearly state it for you by saying so.


152 posted on 10/25/2007 6:49:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: Secret Agent Man

**I don’t agree with their answer, by stating that I don’t believe in praying to Christians who have died **

Has anyone in your family died? Did you go to the funeral? Then you prayed to God FOR them, since they can no longer pray for themselves.

Please answer my question:

Has anyone in your family died? Did you go to the funeral?


154 posted on 10/25/2007 7:10:41 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Okay. Thank you for the clear statement. I never claimed to be smart, It's all lies, I tell you lies!

You asked something like, "Why ask anyone to pray for you when you can ask Jesus directly?" An answer was attempted, and then you went to the "I see dead people" argument.

"Not agreeing" all by itself, doesn't move the ball, since you asked the question. If there is never any reason, in your view, to ask anyone to pray for one, then say so and prepare to defend it. Otherwise, I think, the situation is that EITHER Paul was wrong to ask those other people to pray for him, which would be consistent with your, "Why go to anyone when you can go right to Jesus?" argument, OR we have a Biblical precedent for asking others for prayer.

If the latter, then we can go on to the whether we can ask people in heaven for prayer or not. If the former, then we need go no further, but need to re-examine that question.

But IF you think Paul is wrong, I think you need to show us why. And if you think he is right not always to go to Jesus but sometimes in addition to going to Jesus also to ask others for their prayers, then I think you need to say that. Things are never as clear as we think they are, at least not to moi. Be kind to those afflicted with stupidity. And besides, the care and focus necessary to argue clearly often lowers the ambient temperature, which for most Christians would, I think, be considered a good thing. But then, it's been argued that my desire for clear, charitable, reasonable discussion is an indication that I have problems.

I'm sure I do.

And of course, I hope you understand that the Protestant trump card of Scripture will also come into play in a disputation with Catholics because we have a different view of Scriptural authority from that held by many Protestants.

155 posted on 10/25/2007 7:13:37 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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