Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
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The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
So you think Ashtoreth, or whatever her name is, is reigning up in heaven alongside the God of Israel?
Or do you mean to say that the pagans wrongly called Ashtoreth the "queen of heaven," which is completely different.
“But I think it is rather dishonest to pretend that all you read and consider is the Cathechism.”
I think it’s dishonest to make such a statement as you have. I never suggested the Catechism was all I read and consider. You are trying to put words in my mouth.
“It was you who said you had never heard of the term and implied that this was some sort of far out thing or perhaps nonexistent.”
Another incorrect statement. I said I had never heard of “co-redemptrix” or “co-mediatrix”. And untill seeing it in this thread, I had not. I have heard and be taught about the Blessed Mother as Mediatrix. Not as co-redemtrix or co-remediatrix.
“When in fact anyone who is watching the so-called “development of doctrine” has seen this term for quite some time.”
Another fallacious arguement. I never suggested that I had ever been watching or studying the “development of doctrine.”
I do however believe in Our Lord, Jesus Christ. I believe His Mother and all the Saints in Heaven lay our prayers at the Throne of God. I also believe in Sacred Scripture that is interpreted for us all by the Holy Spirit thru the Majesterium of the Church. I believe Mary, the Mother of God hears interceeds for us at the foot of the Throne, of her Son, Jesus Christ and that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ.
Not even a Roaming Calflick priest. Can't say more - but that means of course, there's more to say.
"Answer" it? I agree with it.
You, however, obviously cannot, since you say you think you are saved by faith in "Jesus alone," and that clearly precludes you from believing that faith in God the Father or God the Holy Spirit are in anyway salvific.
ETH just denied that he was saved by faith in Jesus alone.
You and he can fight that one out.
Okay. I didn’t proof. mea culpa.
I meant to post your query about priesthood. I don’t multitask so good.
The role of Jesus in the Trinity is Savior and Judge, the Father said we are to believe in Christ
Jhn 6:28 Then sai
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Which obviously presupposes that we believe in the Father. Jesus was speaking to Jews, not to atheists.
They might have been Satanic at some point, but now they’re Islamic.
Saving souls? That's not my job. That's up to God.
"So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that waterth; but God that giveth the increase." -- 1 Corinthians 3:7
We're just called to preach the Gospel of Christ risen, confident that all those whom God gives ears to hear, at a time of God's choosing, will hear and understand and believe.
And part of preaching the Gospel, a great big part of it, is to proclaim loudly and consistently and eternally, that there is "only ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, Christ Jesus."
Because if you get that one wrong you're just spinning in circles, endlessly returning to the recurring loop of creature-worship and not arriving at the perfect end-point of God-worship.
Did you READ the scripture? REALLY read it? It says have faith in the Son to be saved . It never tells us to have faith in the father to be saved
Such questions are for deeper minds than mine, but we *are* talking about New Jersey. Just sayin’ ...
May I suggest a Guinness at this point?
Lord help us.
So, you and she both think you can pry Jesus out of the Trinity and believe in him alone for your salvation???
As I said, poor Jesus, torn from the Trinity, estranged from his mother, surrounded by dead people. And for this he died on the cross ?!?!?!
(I can tolerate a black-and-tan, but that's all.)
Remember, Ich bin ein Deutscher, and those Irish folks can't make good beer. Well, okay, Killians red (is that really Irish?) is okay.
Well, you tell me. You read what was preached in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th centuries and tell me it was all Scripture, ipsissima verba. It certainly was not.
They didn't even settle the list of what written documents were Scripture until the 4th century
Thus the Church developed much of its teachings from oral tradition. Paul told the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2), and he gives these instructions to the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
He even goes so far as to give them this explicit order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
Paul told Timothy, "What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).
Scripture without Sacred Tradition is unscriptural.
Didn't I ask you why Jesus bodily resurrected?
I don't want to dismiss mass hallucinations out of hand entirely, but I seriously doubt they are as easily done as some skeptics seem to think.
With all the stuff the RCC has created around Mary I can understand why you need to support mass hallucinations. ;-)
Padre Pio's miracles are totally debatable. Just let me implore you *do not dismiss them out of hand* just because Padre Pio was Catholic...
I don't. I question them for other reasons. I don't dismiss something just because it involves RC's. I'm sure I'll meet brothers and sisters in Christ in heaven who came from that sect.
Now, y'all? Share!
Muslims believe in God, Jews believe in God, yet both groups will go to hell because they do not have faith in Christ.
One must believe correctly or the believe does you no good.If you believe it will be 90 tomorrow, and go outside in shorts your belief will not keep you warm and dry if it is 50 and raining.
Believing that Christ died to "make it possible" for you to be saved if you live a good enough life will never save you .
That isn't what the Scripture says.
There's a perfectly good word for "one and only one" in Greek, monos. 1 Tim 2:5 doesn't contain that word. Look it up.
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