Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
|
|
|
|
|
The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
Are Christians not called to identify error by rightly dividing the word of God and to offer God's word in correction?
I would expect the same of you to me.
If one believes he is saved or damned by his works , then one comforts oneself with the idea that "I am not as bad as my neighbor"
The Bible tells us "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." That is the inspired word of God . It does not say that some have fallen short and some are "close"
May I quote James to you?
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
So the thief is also a murder in Gods eyes.
No where does Jesus say or imply that one is saved by works.
The book of James was written to a converted church , not heathens seeking salvation .
The book of James tells the saved how their conversion is seen by the unsaved world . It is not about becoming saved or being saved. It is about the fruit of your salvation.
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Notice this assumes there is saving faith present before the works
Jam 2:18 Yea, if a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
This is an amplification of the teaching of Jesus that we know a tree by the fruit it bears. It is how we know the saved from the unsaved. It does not declare that the man has faith ...but that he SAYS he has faith.
This passage addresses a hollow profession of faith , not a saving one .Can a hollow profession save him? NO, any more than works can save.This scripture says to the church that this faith is non existent , it is dead.
The bible is clear that it is God that gives the faith and it is God that ordains the works of the saved
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Hbr 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
BTW
The use of "alone" in Romans 3 has a history that preceeds Luther. Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him.
Translations prior to Luther used the terminology of faith alone with respect to Romans 3:28. The Nuremberg Bible of 1483 had "allein durch den glauben," while the Italian Bibles of Geneva in 1476 and even 1538 had "per sola fide."
God elects; Christ redeems; the Holy Spirit sanctifies.
Salvation is of the Lord. A perfect plan.
You think a pagan goddess is currently sitting on a throne in the presence of YVWH?
There is no doubt this worship of the queen of heaven is as a direct result of the first pontiff of the roman church at Nicea.
There is no doubt that you like to make up a lot of foolishness and prefix it with "There is no doubt that ..."
Hey, wait: I'm the ex-Episcopalian here. You think I don't know that?
But it's not just the pre-Augustinian period. All the way up to Henry VIII and throughout Europe the role and authority of the Bishop of Rome was controversial. Don't forget, the official promulgation, declaration, definition, etc. of Papal Infallibility is less than a couple of centuries old. Whichever side one thinks was right, it would be hard to maintain that there wasn't controversy.
Make up your mind. Are you saved by faith in Christ alone, or not?
Just wanted to clarify that I realize you can do both, but not knowing Catholic theology that well, I wasn’t sure if it was
required to pray to a saint *before* praying to Jesus. I’m guessing depending on the situation, you can do either, yes? It’s all a matter of personal preference?
Another question—in India, households will have favorite family gods they pray to on a regular basis (my SIL’s family actually has their own 300 year old family temple in India)—do Catholic families tend to have family favorites in which saint/s they choose to pray to, or is it more of an individual thing in families?
You know Blake’s Hymn? I can’t get around Newark or North Jersey without singing, “Dark, Satanic mills.”
Call me CJ. :-)
I’m sorry about the loss of your best friend. :*(
I’m glad you find comfort in talking to her and asking her
to intercede for you.
So you deny the very clear Word of G-d?
There is no doubt as who is the queen of heaven ; a pagan goddess
AMEN! That correct understanding is what comes from reading the Scriptures.
But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching" -- Titus 1:2-3
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." -- 1 John 5:13"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
When I said these marks pointed people to him, I was told that he would LOL because he was "told not to show them"
Apparently it was not "god" that told him, nor was it his choice not to show them, so I will repeat that the marks point people away from Christ and to him, that is a work of Satan, when men draw others from Christ to thmeselves
There are (I think) a few pictures of his hands which show them.
So he disobeyed his superiors? Why do you think that is, if he was a humble man seeking nothing for himself?
I've read that, at one point, he underwent a minor operation without anesthesia, because he didn't want to risk the doctors inspecting them, in violation of his superiors' orders, while he was unconscious.
If no one saw them we do not know if they existed, if he showed them to some then why not the doctors.
This is a very convoluted story that draws man away from what is truly important Champion...... Christ
I’ll pray for you even if you don’t pray for me! :-)
But I’d love prayers, especially right now, since I’m going through a medical procedure next week which I can’t mention here.
They have no answer to your post 494.
My point is that the Anglican Church predates the Roman Church in England, and that it was turned more toward the Orthodox than toward the Latins.
Just an opinion, but there you have it.
Are you now a Roman priest?
How’s this? If the shoe fits...
The shoe doesn’t fit. You’re trying to shoehorn a size 10 shoe on a size 12 foot.
Thanks, CJ.
Devotions to saints are almost universally "unofficial". Even the Rosary and other Marian prayers are, sort of, "informal" or "popular".
I think I said earlier that at the Easter Vigil when we Baptize lots of adults, usually, we sing a "Litany of the Saints" in which we include patrons chosen by the catechumens.
But that's for fancy. In a normal regular Sunday Baptism, if the catechumen has a patron, the patron's name might be mentioned during the prayers, but it's by no means required.
I think there are national and regional saints, but I never heard of a family attachment to one particular saint. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I just never heard of it.
Marian devotion, though, is a different matter and I'd venture to guess that any devout practicing RC family probably says the Rosary together from time to time and may also sing Marian antiphons like the Salve Regina or the Regina Coeli.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.