LDS defend the faith as Christian

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 10/07/07 | By Peggy Fletcher Stack

[colorcountry]

Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity, said speaker after speaker on the first day of the 177th Semiannual LDS General Conference. LDS authorities were responding to the allegation that Mormonism isn't part of Christianity. Made by different mainline Protestant and Catholic churches and repeated constantly during coverage of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, the claim is based on Mormonism's beliefs about God, its rejection of ancient ideas about the Trinity still widely accepted, and the LDS Church's extra-biblical scriptures. "It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion," said Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland in the afternoon session. "But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first [Christians], many of whom were eye-witnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?"

{snip}

The day's sermons included many familiar themes, including the importance of faith, the need for pure thoughts and actions, avoiding pornography reaching out to neighbors and eliminating spiritual procrastination. Hinckley talked about the destructive nature of anger in marriages, on the road, and in life, urging Mormons to "control your tempers, to put a smile upon your faces, which will erase anger; speak with words of love and peace, appreciation and respect."

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.

[MHGinTN]

If you go to the essays on my profile page, you will see ‘what I favor’.

[Logophile]

Allow me to revise and extend my remarks. I should not have said "When that fails to impress, you resort to viturperation" because it suggests a motive. (Thanks to the Religion Moderator for pointing that out.)

It would have been better to say, "Sometimes you employ vituperation."

I apologize to MHGinTN and anyone else who was offended by my remarks.

Good night to all.

[Reno232]

I can certainly understand your sentiments, we have to deal w/ those “gotcha” moments here on a regular basis. However, the saints in the NT had to deal w/ those types of issues on a regular basis as well. Can you imagine them shirking to tell others what church they belonged to b/c they were afaid of those “gotcha” moments. I think Paul in particular would have come down on them like a load of bricks.

If you’re proud of where you belong you should sing it from the rooftops not be afraid of what man might say. We do so on a regular basis. Do we get hammered for doing so? Obviously. As w/ the early saints, are we proud to do so, absolutely! We stand tall in our proclamation. We fear not what man has to say but rather respect what the Lord would have us testify to.

[restornu]

Oh boloney

[restornu]

Oh boloney

[DragoonEnNoir]

Thanks Grig for the clarification on horses. Without being a Mezo-American scholar, I would point out some interesting points:
- both works are quite early. Further field study may have not supported the claim
- it may be due to inaccurate or contaminated dating of materials

You rightly point out though that this would not prove the Book of Mormon. Yet this sits at the tip of a rather lengthy list of other historical anomalies which, taken as a whole, point strongly to a human vs divine origin of Mormonism.

Your comments on Smith’s statements are understood, but where (as in the case for the statement, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil.”) Smith seems to be asserting higher knowledge, that creates a quandary. He is here not saying it is his understanding (as Paul clearly does in a couple of his letters), but rather that he is ‘taking away a veil’ and revealing something that has been shown to him. This does not require a reply, but I ask you to lift up to God the question; Was Joseph Smith your prophet? ...and to test him against what scripture tells us about discerning prophets.

The source is always an important consideration. The person and life of Jesus Christ are a unique witness in this regard.

(Grig wrote) Interpreting the oneness of the Father and the Son as them being two persons but one being of one substance is a misinterpretation. One that leads to the false doctrine of the trinity. The doctrine that the sacrament as literally becoming the body and blood of Christ is likewise based on a misinterpretation. Original sin, the idea that baptism is optional, that there is to be no more scripture after the Bible, these also are the results of misinterpreting the Bible.

Some of your comments here are very denominational (it appears mainly Roman Catholic) in nature... transubstantiation for example, which I would suggest is not ‘misinterpretation’, but rather reliance on human tradition and wisdom vs what is presented in the Bible. Men are fallible though, and it is not human wisdom we rely upon but that of God.

Let’s narrow the field by giving a definition of Christianity. You are correct that there have been many who have claimed to be ‘Christian’ throughout history, yet who have drawn their inspiration not from the God of the Abraham and Isaac. I’ll present this as a statement of what followers of Christ throughout the ages have been in clear agreement on. These words are not mine, but I stand behind them as a true representation of what I believe through the power of the Holy Spirit.

---

I believe in the one, holy, sovereign, creating and redeeming God, eternally existing in three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I believe in the divine inspiration and the entire trustworthiness of the Bible, its infallible teaching and supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct, and its normative value for all people, at all times, in all cultures.

I believe that all people without distinction are made in the image of God, but all are now sinners and have incurred both God`s holy wrath and their own shame and guilt. All are therefore in utter need of redemption.

I believe in Jesus Christ our Lord, the incarnate Son of God, uniquely God-man and the only Savior. I believe in his virgin birth, sinless life, sacrificial death, bodily resurrection and ascension. I believe he has achieved the final defeat of Satan and all evil powers.

I believe in the justification of sinners by God`s grace, through faith in Christ alone.

I believe in the Holy Spirit and in his convicting, regenerating, sanctifying and reviving work. He guides and empowers individuals and churches in their service to God and man.

I believe in the unity and priesthood of all believers who together form the one, holy, universal, apostolic church.

I believe in the visible, personal return of Jesus Christ in power and great glory to judge both the living and the dead. We believe that the Scriptures set out only two destinies for humanity: the joyful prospect of eternal life in the presence of God for those who have received Christ, and the agonizing prospect of eternal separation from God for those who have rejected him.

[Elsie]

A revelation from God is true, whether or not it is written down.

This is another apparent Changing Revelation from GOD, for many LDS members have stated that the riteS done today are not the SAME as had been done in the pAST.

[Elsie]

There you go AGAIN!!

Using facts to tear down our beloved beliefs!!

Where will we go if the LDS organization is found to be wrong??

--MormonDude(Lost without my precious Scriptures - even though much of what we do is not FOUND in scripture.)

[Elsie]

ex Mormon: A Mormon Church Translator for 15 Years and Her Husband

Arrgh!!

Pshaw: just yet ANOTHER Anti-Mormon site that hates us and is probably lying about their so called 'experiences'.

[Elsie]

"Messenger and Advocate." 

"Teachings by Prophet Joseph Smith"

Early Mormon apostle Orson Pratt made a statement 

"Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon": 

"the Shakers Book"

 

---

What are you trying to DO!!

 

NONE of these screeds are SCRIPTURE!!!

 

Don't you know that we are People of the Book??  (uh; make that books)

 

 

It's been posted on these very threads that EVERYTHING we believe are to be found on the Official Website of the Church of Latter Day Saints - LDS.ORG

 

 

If it ain't there; it's a BIG, FAT LIE!

 

--MormonDude(I hope you're happy that you've gotten me upset!)

[Elsie]

BTW, RM, isn't this statement "So you want someone who belongs to a church but doesn’t ‘really’ belive in it?" mind-reading?

Oh; so BOTH you and Elsie are jumping on us, crying and going to the Moderator!

You must hate us! (Oh - wait - I think I just read MY mind.)

--MormonDude(The jury will disregard that last exclamatory statement)

[Elsie]

If the anti-Mormons stop attacking, I will stop defending.

Games aren't won by playing defense.

---

 When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, ^bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 

 

 

[Elsie]

DNA attacks against the Book of Mormon are ill-advised, a "contrived controversy."

You've been warned.

--MormonDude(Can't we all just get along?)

[Elsie]

All you can show is apologists sites?

Come on! What do you expect them to say?

Why the TRUTH; what else?

It's the ANTI's that lie and twist all the time; not us!

--MormonDude(On a roll)

[Elsie]

"you will attack, defame, and belittle my beliefs" Remember Joseph Smith's declaration:

And folks STILL do, to this DAY!!

Therefore JS is a TRUE Prophet!!

--MormonDude(relaxing in fulfilled prophecy)

[Elsie]

As for me, I will continue to trust the scriptural accounts of the apostles, prophets, saints, and the Lord himself, as well as my own "subjective" experiences with the Holy Ghost.

You left out the NON-scriptural things done in Temple.

Do you not believe in them?

[Elsie]

Indeed, he said that their creeds were an abomination.

HMMmm...

Just what about those 'creeds' are so bad??

[Elsie]

But then you say a lot of things. Much of what you say is nonsense. When that fails to impress, you resort to vituperation.

Now you say that we Mormons are guilty of dissembling, double talk, and heresies. Fine. You have established that you are anti-Mormon.

Holding this up to a mirror reveals...

But then you say a lot of things. Much of what you say is nonsense. When that fails to impress, you resort to vituperation.

Now you say that we Christians are guilty of dissembling, double talk, and heresies. Fine. You have established that you are anti-Christian.

---

Mirror Mirror On The Wall, Who's Been Duped The Most Of All?

[Elsie]