LDS defend the faith as Christian

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 10/07/07 | By Peggy Fletcher Stack

[colorcountry]

Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity, said speaker after speaker on the first day of the 177th Semiannual LDS General Conference. LDS authorities were responding to the allegation that Mormonism isn't part of Christianity. Made by different mainline Protestant and Catholic churches and repeated constantly during coverage of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, the claim is based on Mormonism's beliefs about God, its rejection of ancient ideas about the Trinity still widely accepted, and the LDS Church's extra-biblical scriptures. "It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion," said Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland in the afternoon session. "But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first [Christians], many of whom were eye-witnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?"

{snip}

The day's sermons included many familiar themes, including the importance of faith, the need for pure thoughts and actions, avoiding pornography reaching out to neighbors and eliminating spiritual procrastination. Hinckley talked about the destructive nature of anger in marriages, on the road, and in life, urging Mormons to "control your tempers, to put a smile upon your faces, which will erase anger; speak with words of love and peace, appreciation and respect."

[Elsie]

Given that the Nephite civilization was totally destroyed by war, it’s survivors descended into barbarism, and there is no way to know what else went on in the 1000+ years between Moroni and Columbus, I really don’t think there is any reasonable basis to say how much and what kind of evidence should have survived. Those kind of claims just seem like a way of moving the goal posts, first they say there is no evidence, we show evidence, then they say there should be more some evidence than that if it was true. The Book of Mormon has been around for 177 years. When it first came out there was no evidence of anything claimed in it. If it was faked, you would expect that as time went on it would become less and less credible, but the opposite has happened.

Sorry, but finding bits and pieces of things that can be spun to fit the template of Mormonism does not count as scientific evidence, but more of a Calvinasaurus type of conglomeration.

Where are the Smithsonian displays? the PBS specials?

[Elsie]

Put that promise to the test.

Been there; done that; got the T-shirt that says...

Found Wanting

[colorcountry]

Ahhhhhhh. Beautiful.

[Elsie]

I don't believe in proof-texting Christianity out of thin air, and I do believe that there *has* to be an authority in interpretation over what an individual can get out of it personally.

 

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KJV Acts 17:10-13
 10.  And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
 11.  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

(They were told by NO ONE what the scriptures meant.)

 

KJV 2 Peter 1:16-20
 16.  For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
 17.  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 18.  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
 19.  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
 20.  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

---

 

The trouble with AUTHORITY telling you what scripture MEANS should be obvious to everyone: i.e. 'authority' has to be right!

 

KJV Luke 12:12
   For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

 

KJV John 14:26
   But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

KJV 1 John 2:26-27
 26.  These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
 27.  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[Elsie]

That is understandable: you do not wish to admit that you have engaged in some exaggeration.

MindReading Alert!

[Elsie]

 

You made it my business when you attacked the LDS Church and cited your own experience as evidence. You do so frequently on these threads.

 

Of COURSE!!!

 

He used to be MORMON!!

 

This stuff is ingrained REALLY deeply, it seems.

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself ^adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I ^bsaw two ^cPersonages, whose brightness and ^dglory defy all description, ^estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My ^fBeloved ^gSon. Hear Him!

  18 My object in going to ^ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all ^awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those ^bprofessors were all ^ccorrupt; that: “they ^ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ^ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the ^fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the ^gpower thereof.”

  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself ^alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, ^bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 

 

 

 You must admit that LDS organization members tend to "attack non-LDS Church's and cite their own experience as evidence. They do so frequently on these threads."  as well.

[greyfoxx39]

Wow, if one could just resemble Jeri Ryan!

[Elsie]

If you are going to make public accusations against the LDS Church based on your own experience, you should provide reasons for us to believe that you know what you are talking about. Thus far, you have refused to do so.

Remember how when a dude DOES get 'ex-communicated" from the LDS organization, headquarters won't ever say WHY???

Can't we have the same type of respect given to OUR opinions as they do??

[Elsie]

Yeah!!

Really got the Pot/Kettle thing going good!

[greyfoxx39]

Very moving...thank you.

[Elsie]

Pretty soon we’ll get the old Matt 7:1-5 reply.

[xzins]

It is reasonable.

I thought that Mormons were pro-life. If that is their stated position, why do they believe it?

[Elsie]

If you are not a member, you are operating under false colors by refusing to acknowledge the fact.

One more time:

Just WHY should he state whether he is or is NOT on the church role?

HOW would admiting his status change the veracity of his statements?

Could it be that the old Mormon ploy "He's an EX, so everything he says can be dismissed." would then be seen on these threads?

The exact same way EVERY EX-LDS organization member web page is treated?

[Elsie]

I suspect that you are refusing because the truth would undercut your accusations about the LDS Church. But have it your way.

HMMmm...

[greyfoxx39]

But wouldn’t it be better to just stay away from the process all together?

THERE NOW! WE'VE HINTED AND HINTED!

We've even DEMANDED of the mods!

JUST STAY AWAY AND SHUT UP!

Mormon Dudette (Standing in for Mormon Dude)

[Elsie]

Although I may disagree with them on particular points of doctrine, I am pleased to acknowledge them as fellow Christians and as brothers and sisters.

Amen, Brother!!

It's just too bad that they do not reciprocate the honor.

--MormonDude(feeling rejected)

[Elsie]

It’s one thing to walk away & say, it’s not for me. It’s quite another to do so in the vitriolic manner she does.

And it's quite another to realize the damage that the LDS organization has done and want to warn others of the pitfalls.

One persons, "Get off the tracks!! A train is coming!!!", seems to be anothers 'vitrol'.

[Elsie]

Either the keys of the kingdom were passed on to the current pope, or they were lost long ago and restored to Joseph Smith and handed down from there to the current President of the Church.

Only TWO choices??

What about the 'keys' being a parable?

The KNOWLEDGE of Jesus being the Messiah??

?

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KJV Matthew 16:19-20
19. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

[Elsie]

....I think they ALL ought to just pray about it and the Holy Ghost will give them an answer...are you or aren't you?

Sir; you malign our Founder!

You KNOW this precept is for OUTSIDERS only to try!

--MormonDude(I have all the answers. All that God reveals to me anyway...)

[Elsie]

Send her back to the Cube with a virus!