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LDS defend the faith as Christian
The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 10/07/07 | By Peggy Fletcher Stack

Posted on 10/08/2007 7:49:32 AM PDT by colorcountry

Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity, said speaker after speaker on the first day of the 177th Semiannual LDS General Conference. LDS authorities were responding to the allegation that Mormonism isn't part of Christianity. Made by different mainline Protestant and Catholic churches and repeated constantly during coverage of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, the claim is based on Mormonism's beliefs about God, its rejection of ancient ideas about the Trinity still widely accepted, and the LDS Church's extra-biblical scriptures. "It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion," said Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland in the afternoon session. "But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first [Christians], many of whom were eye-witnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?"

{snip}

The day's sermons included many familiar themes, including the importance of faith, the need for pure thoughts and actions, avoiding pornography reaching out to neighbors and eliminating spiritual procrastination. Hinckley talked about the destructive nature of anger in marriages, on the road, and in life, urging Mormons to "control your tempers, to put a smile upon your faces, which will erase anger; speak with words of love and peace, appreciation and respect."


TOPICS: Current Events; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; christians; denialofthetrinity; hatemongering; heresy; joinarealchurch; ldschurch; mormonbashing; notrinitynochristian; sorrynotickynowashy; trinty; unchristianbahavior
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To: greyfoxx39

How has THIS stayed in this thread for so long???


161 posted on 10/09/2007 11:50:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

How come we NEVER hear from these Pentacostal Mormons???

162 posted on 10/09/2007 11:51:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Kolokotronis
But it gets worse, we STILL won’t believe what the Westerners tell us we must believe...

People in my office are wondering why I laugh out loud during lunchtime!

163 posted on 10/09/2007 11:52:14 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Terirem

And Messiah is....

Christ!

A nice word that’s found in the BoM, supposedly written centuries BEFORE ‘christ’ appeared on Earth.


164 posted on 10/09/2007 11:53:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Choose Ye This Day
For man-made doctrines of councils and confusion?

Speaking of 'man-made doctrines', that's what your Temple Rites® are, for the AUTHORITY for them is nowhere to be found in what the LDS organization calls scripture.

165 posted on 10/09/2007 12:00:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
In the BM, Smith used 'Christ' as a last name for Jesus, primarily. ... sort of like 'Jesus Christ' son of Joseph Christ, son of Mary Christ.
166 posted on 10/09/2007 12:03:53 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: Choose Ye This Day
 
There may be other inhabitants on other worlds, there may even be other offspring with whom He has shared his godhood, and we ALL have the potential to inherit his glory and become like Him, but we will never be equal to Him, nor will we ever worship any other gods to the exclusion of Him.
 
Some of your Scriptures seem to disagree with your statement...
 

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

SECTION 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501—507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

 1—6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7—14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15—20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21—25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26—27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28—39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40—47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48—50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51—57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58—66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 

   

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines —

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?

11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?

12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.

13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.

14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent.  I am he.  Receive ye, therefore,  my law.

25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.

36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill . Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness .

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

     

167 posted on 10/09/2007 12:05:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Choose Ye This Day; Scotswife
And why CAN’T humans become gods?

Go ahead and answer THIS one and we'll set up a bunch more for you!

--MormonDude(we got's LOT's of 'em!)

168 posted on 10/09/2007 12:06:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Choose Ye This Day; Scotswife
Where in the scriptures does God say that He does NOT want His children to become like Him?

Ya done with that first one yet??

169 posted on 10/09/2007 12:08:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Choose Ye This Day
What, in your opinion, is the ultimate goal God has for us? What is to become of us?

Hurry up with those first two; for here are a couple more...

170 posted on 10/09/2007 12:09:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: colorcountry
BTW, this particular thread is about Mormonism and its claims. Not Episcopalians.

You are supposed to waste your time, vigorously defending Episcopalians; NOT jump back on Mormons!!

171 posted on 10/09/2007 12:12:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MHGinTN
“Out-of-Context Snippets!” ... is it time to coin a new phrase? ‘Drive-by Snippetry’

And if you fail to give sources; it coud be...

‘Hidden-Source Snipery’

172 posted on 10/09/2007 12:21:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: colorcountry; kaehurowing

Oh please from the queen of hijacking threads! LOoooLllll!


173 posted on 10/09/2007 12:55:19 PM PDT by restornu (No one is perfect but you can always strive to do the right thing! Press Forward Mitt!)
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To: restornu

Now resty....

You’re very good at hijacking threads, but I wouldn’t call you the queen. You’re just too hard on yourself.

Don’t you need to go have a warm-fuzzy-feeling and exercise your free agency. I’m sure that would bring you up to your higher good. :-D


174 posted on 10/09/2007 12:58:35 PM PDT by colorcountry (If the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense, lest you get nonsense! ~ J. Vernon McGee)
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To: MHGinTN; All
“Out-of-Context Snippets!” ... is it time to coin a new phrase? ‘Drive-by Snippetry’,p>

Is it Christmas? Ho Ho, you sleigh me!

This is particularly funny because I believe it was I who came up with “drive by bigotry”

I’m flying out of town in a bit, but will be back tomorrow. If you care to deny these “snippets” as you call them, let’s go at them one at a time. To make it easier for you, I will concede that we can just look at the NT references, as you will say it supersedes the OT anyway.

I am not afraid of the word of God, and I will defend His word. Let's look at all these deeply and discuss them in length. You have all mocked me and questioned my integrity, and I will not stand by idle. So, if you accept, let’s start one by one. I'll go first, with the Matthew reference. Also, here is the entire list again. Every reference, in it’s entire context.

Matt. 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Now, what about that is out of context. What does Righteousness mean to you? Compare with this?

Cor. 15: 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not.

Now, I'll let you move on to the next one, Matt. 5:16 ___________________________________________________________________
Matt. 5: 6 they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness.
Matt. 5: 16 that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father.
Matt. 7: 12 whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.
Matt. 7: 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matt. 13: 23 received seed into the good ground . . . beareth fruit.
Matt. 16: 27 (1 Cor. 3: 8; Alma 9: 27-28; D&C 138: 59) shall reward every man according to his works.
Matt. 25: 40 as ye have done it unto one of the least of these . . . ye have done it unto me.
John 3: 21 he that doeth truth cometh to the light.
John 8: 39 If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 9: 4 I must work the works of him that sent me.
Acts 10: 35 he that . . . worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Rom. 2: 13 doers of the law shall be justified.
2 Cor. 5: 10 receive . . . according to that he hath done.
Gal. 6: 4 let every man prove his own work.
Gal. 6: 7 whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Eph. 2: 10 created in Christ Jesus unto good works.
Eph. 5: 9 fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness.
2 Tim. 3: 17 perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 3: 8 be careful to maintain good works.
Heb. 13: 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will.
James 1: 22 be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only.
James 1: 27 Pure religion . . . is this, To visit the fatherless.
James 2: 22 by works was faith made perfect.
James 2: 26 faith without works is dead.
James 4: 17 him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not.
1 Pet. 1: 17 (Rev. 20: 12-13; 1 Ne. 15: 32; Mosiah 3: 24; Alma 33: 22; D&C 19: 3; D&C 76: 111; D&C 137: 9) Father . . . judgeth according to every man’s work.
1 Pet. 2: 12 your good works . . . glorify God.
2 Pet. 1: 5 add to your faith virtue.
1 Jn. 3: 18 let us not love in word . . . but in deed.
1 Jn. 3: 22 we receive of him, because we keep his commandments.
Rev. 22: 14 blessed are they that do his commandments.

175 posted on 10/09/2007 1:24:05 PM PDT by sevenbak (Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. ~Psalms 85:11)
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To: colorcountry

“I suppose you think it wise to follow the so-called Prophet, Joseph Smith because God’s ways might be higher than you understand and so the provable heresies of his teachings should thus be ignored. If so, then my common sense would tell me that you believe in nonsense. Have a good day. :-D”

You suppose too much. I was only pointing out that sometimes the ways of God don’t make “sense” to we poor mortals and that if you were using that to apply to religious principles, it may not always work. Have a good day, also.


176 posted on 10/09/2007 2:03:03 PM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things.)
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To: BibChr
Do you happen to know for what purpose the poster posted his list of scripture portions? ... he didn't explain other than 'you guys are killing me'. Is the poster trying to defend salvation through works? Is the poster trying to teach means to righteousness? The Mormonism apologists are big on imputing motive and making up attributions of motive and intents of others, so I doubt we ought to address any of their snippetry without specific explanation of why they are posting such snippets. And you?
177 posted on 10/09/2007 2:07:15 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: Claud; aMorePerfectUnion
Logophile, what right does anyone have to tell you you can't call yourself a Christian? Just because you hold what we know to be heterodox opinions? . . . I'm Catholic. If that's the silly criteria we're operating under, then what's to stop me from making an equally obnoxious demand that every Protestant on this thread stop calling themselves Christians? . . . My goodness folks. It is part of *Christian* charity to assume the best intentions in someone.

Thanks, Claud. I tend to agree with you.

BTW, if you check the links that aMorePerfectUnion provided in Post 72, you may be surprised to learn that Roman Catholicism is a "cult," perhaps more pagan than Christian. So Mormons are in good company.

Of course, anyone who says that Roman Catholicism is pagan rather than Christian is not to be taken seriously.

178 posted on 10/09/2007 2:11:07 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: Elsie

They don’t seem to do anything of the kind.


179 posted on 10/09/2007 2:12:17 PM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want. -- Sherman)
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To: Logophile
BTW, if you check the links that aMorePerfectUnion provided in Post 72, you may be surprised to learn that Roman Catholicism is a "cult," perhaps more pagan than Christian.

LOL...yeah, I know that charge all too well!

180 posted on 10/09/2007 2:20:22 PM PDT by Claud
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